Big Three Bailout

[horizon200]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a saying about "don't look a gift horse in the mouth"?

Alan Reuther, the United Auto Workers union's legislative director, said one option under consideration was a smaller, more targeted amount of funding "that would get the companies through to March." He said the union was "open to discussing various options like that. There's a need for immediate action."

I know there are staunch union advocates on this board...but here's an example of just why the auto industry is in a shambles! A union that has the gall to say they are "open" to options when they want Government handouts to keep their business running?????

Maybe when I file my taxes this year, I will just send in a note saying I'm "open to discussing various options"!

[sctx]

just say no

[ryberg]

More commentary on this from tonight's NewsHour:

MARK SHIELDS, Syndicated Columnist: I think the auto industry is an object lesson in badly managed industry...

DAVID BROOKS, Columnist, New York Times: Well, I don't think you can just let them go and do nothing. But I think the essential point is that Detroit as we know it is not viable. There's not going to be a Detroit as we know it in 5 years, in 10 years.

These people are bleeding money. And it's not because of this crisis. It's because of a whole series of long-term problems: bad management, bad contracts, bad cars, bad corporate cultures.

The market has rendered a verdict on this Detroit, and the verdict is these cannot survive as capitalist enterprises. So the question is, how do you transition into the next model? And the worst thing you can do is give them another $50 billion with no strings attached.

Steve

[roni]

I don't know, you know.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by sctx

just say no

I'm conflicted. My dad is retired UAW; union is in my blood.

BUT, the big three has resisted innovation for too long. Fire the top brass and build cars people want to drive.

[sctx]

Originally Posted by melliedee

I'm conflicted. My dad is retired UAW; union is in my blood.

BUT, the big three has resisted innovation for too long. Fire the top brass and build cars people want to drive.

cut all salaries 50% or go away

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by sctx

cut all salaries 50% or go away

Too easy. The country is nostalgic for the times when a high school grad could raise a family and buy a home on an industrial job. What's the alternative? Outsource because some other country can do it cheaper?

[Bumper]

Why does this latest bailout come as a surprise to anyone? For decades, industries in the US have been artificially supported through punitive duties, massive subsidies, and protectionist tariffs. And not just the auto industry. Lumber, agriculture, oil, aircraft, and steel are other prime examples. This is just more blatant, and in the media eye. It's not all the fault of unreasonable labour unions, though they certainly get a lot of the weight, but there's plenty of blame to go around. If you choose to support and reward mediocrity, poor decision-making, and short-sightedness, and you will get mediocrity, bad decisions, and short-sightedness.

[Juanito]

So Trek, Cannondale and the Boutique Bike Companies have to pay higher taxes to subsidize Ford, GM & Chrysler?

[Lil G]

Maybe when I file my taxes this year, I will just send in a note saying I'm "open to discussing various options"!

[horizon200]

I agree that the companies have been mis-managed for years...But there is blame all the way around. A management that would grant concessions to unions of the magnitude they have, while still providing outrageous compensation packages to the top level employees deserves just as much blame as the union.

Now, I give the union bosses their due....anyone that can negotiate the type of things they have over the years has the gift of gab!

I'm sure there are plenty of very bright people that work at these places...but when you have negotiated to the point that a guy that puts lug nuts on a wheel all day long gets $75 an hour and gets health care for life and a pension plan....it's no wonder they are where they are! Where they went wrong is negotiating to the point they have hurt their cash cow.

I don't think they aren't capable of building a decent vehicle to compete with imports...the problem is they have positioned themselves so they can't AFFORD to compete!

What's wrong with them going into Chapter 11 and restructuring? The only difference is they don't get our money to let them continue the unethical practices.

[Doggiemom]

Yes, let them file chapter 11 bankrupcy, restructure, take pay cuts, pay freezes, furloughs, etc.....just like the airlines did/have done/are doing

[NiceTom]

Most of the labor involved in building cars takes place away from the assembly plant and it's UAW workers. The typical "automotive" worker is in some factory, making widgets for $15/hr or less, and those those jobs have been going out-of-country fast over the last decade. Just saying, fallout is going to affect way more than some allegedly overpaid GM worker.

200 Billion

I worry about some dark period in our countries future, where we need to be able to make and build things-only to discover that all that knowledge got outsourced decades before.

[horizon200]

Originally Posted by NiceTom

Most of the labor involved in building cars takes place away from the assembly plant and it's UAW workers. The typical "automotive" worker is in some factory, making widgets for $15/hr or less, and those those jobs have been going out-of-country fast over the last decade. Just saying, fallout is going to affect way more than some allegedly overpaid GM worker.

200 Billion

I worry about some dark period in our countries future, where we need to be able to make and build things-only to discover that all that knowledge got outsourced decades before.

No doubt there will be fallout impact...but I would venture to say those machine shops where parts are made will pick up other work as competition steps in to replace the big three.

[ryberg]

Actually, they took up precisely the situation wrt bankruptcy and the airines in that very same NewsHour discussion. (Click on it if you want to see it.) Shields' point was that it's fine for the airlines because buying a ticket is a one-time thing involving much less money, but it's not fine for Detroit in part because you won't make a major long-term purchase like buying a car if you don't have the confidence that the company will still be around for the warranty and services and that parts will still be manufactured and available and so on.

Steve