Surge in Afghanistan (political)

[user 6507]

Originally Posted by Rissask

uh huh


We really appreciated Robert Gates' comments about our role he made a couple of days ago:




From HERE




But Ottawa says we are still sticking to our pull-out date in 2010.

We need more countries to come in with troops for a worthwhile surge.

Or all of the soldiers we have lost and all the money spent will have been for naught.

The US and a few of it's good partners have always held NATO up. You're right-it's time for the rest of the world to step up and get this done so we all can get out of there.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by StephenB

The US and a few of it's good partners have always held NATO up. You're right-it's time for the rest of the world to step up and get this done so we all can get out of there.

Most countries are going to become much more protectionist and much less adventurous...only the bad guys will be wanting to be more adventurous.

[user 6507]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Most countries are going to become much more protectionist and much less adventurous...only the bad guys will be wanting to be more adventurous.

Right....until it happens to them.....and it will

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by StephenB

Right....until it happens to them.....and it will

My guess is that more money will be spent on defensive responses than in "offensive" adventures in foreign countries that have shown to have had little effect after billions of dollars being spent.....the world is no less a dangerous place since 9/11...indeed, a good case can be made that it is much MORE dangerous now.

[user 6507]

Originally Posted by Jacko

My guess is that more money will be spent on defensive responses than in "offensive" adventures in foreign countries that have shown to have had little effect after billions of dollars being spent.....the world is no less a dangerous place since 9/11...indeed, a good case can be made that it is much MORE dangerous now.

True again, but sometimes the best defense is a good offense.

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by Jacko

My guess is that more money will be spent on defensive responses than in "offensive" adventures in foreign countries that have shown to have had little effect after billions of dollars being spent.....the world is no less a dangerous place since 9/11...indeed, a good case can be made that it is much MORE dangerous now.

More people = more fanatics = more danger...so, sure it is.

But at one point we were succeeding in Afghanistan. The Taliban were out and we were on top of things far more than now....then they had a resurgence, biggest reason being we have too few men in there.
We COULD oust them for once and for all, we simply need more troops in the applicable regions, not twiddling their thumbs in the safe zones.

[Jo]

Originally Posted by Rissask

From Canada's perspective, I totally agree with what I bolded here. Let's go in hard and get this over with. But we can't do it alone. There are troops from other countries there, but they aren't in the regions where they are really needed- that is just you guys, us and Britain in those areas.

Ahem.........German troops have been moved from north to south Afghanistan and will be recieving more backup latest I heard.

[Jo]

Originally Posted by Rissask

They haven't had results because it is has been too weak of an effort, to date. The Taliban are re-gaining power daily and have been for awhile. If not for the US troops in Iraq, it might have been over by now.

I don't really think you can compare the Soviet invasion with what we are trying to accomplish can you?



How many more have to die? Ideally? The Taliban, and all of them. That would be good, I think.

The problem I see for the whole region is this: we are trying to install a system (democracy) there that they have not historically known.
Some sometimes compare what is trying to be done there to WWII and Germany after it- but what they forget is that Germany was a democracy BEFORE already, so the system that was being installed was nothing new.

My honest opinion is that whatever we do there we are not likely to succeed in the long haul. Neither will we ever get all terrorists.

[Jacko]

Call it what you want...but at this point, I believe our primary reason for being there is because of Pakistan's current weakness...rather than as terrorist prevention...the terrorist part is just the excuse...much like it was for Iraq.....

[user 6507]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Call it what you want...but at this point, I believe our primary reason for being there is because of Pakistan's current weakness...rather than as terrorist prevention...the terrorist part is just the excuse...much like it was for Iraq.....

If you are correct, do you think that's an entirely bad reason considering they have nukes and a very unstable and sizable radical element waiting to get their hands on the triggers?

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by StephenB

If you are correct, do you think that's an entirely bad reason considering they have nukes and a very unstable and sizable radical element waiting to get their hands on the triggers?

No I do not think it a bad reason....I just do not know how we are going to be successful in there without adequate resources...and we will not have adequate resources...

It would be nice if we would "call a spade a spade" instead of playing games....it might help us all to focus better on actually solving the right problem for a change...

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by Joana

Ahem.........German troops have been moved from north to south Afghanistan and will be recieving more backup latest I heard.

good news!!


For me the best reason for being in there is to try to get rid of the Taliban and their influence. The Afghani people have had experience with far more freedoms and priviledges than they have today, they can appreciate what they have lost I am sure....especially the females.

[user 6507]

Originally Posted by Jacko

No I do not think it a bad reason....I just do not know how we are going to be successful in there without adequate resources...and we will not have adequate resources...

It would be nice if we would "call a spade a spade" instead of playing games....

I share that concern about the resources. I wish we would look at terrorism the way the WHO looks at disease. I know the root cure is what you have suggested in the past-eliminate poverty, educate everyone and generally allow those people to provide a better life for themselves under their own stewardship. Laudable goals, but entirely undoable in our lifetimes. For now, I think we have to look reality in the eye and track down this disease and keep in confined. It will take the whole world to do this, and unless we get some cooperation, we ought to rethink our relationships, aid packages etc. Every time someone gets in trouble they come knocking. One of these days no one will be home to answer the door.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by StephenB

I share that concern about the resources. I wish we would look at terrorism the way the WHO looks at disease. I know the root cure is what you have suggested in the past-eliminate poverty, educate everyone and generally allow those people to provide a better life for themselves under their own stewardship. Laudable goals, but entirely undoable in our lifetimes. For now, I think we have to look reality in the eye and track down this disease and keep in confined. It will take the whole world to do this, and unless we get some cooperation, we ought to rethink our relationships, aid packages etc. Every time someone gets in trouble they come knocking. One of these days no one will be home to answer the door.

It seems preemptively invading a country, destroying its infrastructure and spending billions of dollars and perhaps 100,000 lives in Iraq has also not been the root cure for terrorism.

Go figure.

[user 6507]

Originally Posted by Jacko

It seems preemptively invading a country and spending billions of dollars and perhaps 100,000 lives in Iraq has also not been the root cure for terrorism.

Go figure.

My quote should have included re-thinking our wars too. Some people in the world just don't seem to be worth it.