US Soldier guilty

[Uno]

Originally Posted by Guitar Playa

Absolutely agree with you. It will take a miracle to get this turned around.
Everyone is just clammering for control. and if we did pick up and leave, dear lord the amount of dead that would be piling up.

Just not a good formula no matter how you strategically play it.
In the mean time our boys and girls wake up everyday over there and deal with it.
It's hard thing what war does to a person and for that very reason alone our vets deserve our utmost respect (and service).

On the other end of the gun.....My mother and I befriended a family who were Albainian refugees from Serbia.
The stories the children would tell made my jaw drop and left me with a deep sadness for what they must have went through.

....It's hard thing what war does to a person.

So getting back to the original topic. Can't judge.
....It's hard thing what war does to a person.

Yes it's awful. I know some good men, who did some bad things. I never served. So I can't pass judgment.

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by UnoMasMezcal

I agree with that as well. I never understood Rwanda. How can we pick one and not the other. (I already know the answer by the way) It's about regions, politics, and political gain) But still no answer to my question. How to get out? And what future stance to take in the region? Oh sorry. That's 2 questions. But one answer will suffice.

If you are interested in Rwanda, read Shake Hands with the Devil by Romeo Dallaire, he is Canadian and was the head of the UN mission there for most of it- it's a good book.

Also Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond is an excellent book, it's basically about the last 12,000 years of civilization and why in certain parts of the world civilizations progressed in terms of technologies, farming practices, inventiveness, etc. and while others seemed to stand still, like Africa. (The answer will surprise you but makes TOTAL sense.)
It's fascinating and really well written and easy to read. It talks about what happened in Rwanda and why, VERY interesting.

You can't stay in Iraq forever...there has to be a plan for withdrawal that focuses on training their own people to take over when the US leaves. We need more forces in Afghanistan like GP said, that war is the one to win and we aren't at the moment. Yesterday when Obama was up here they talked about it, he knows I think how important it is to get more troops in there.

[Luv2Dance]

Originally Posted by Rissask

If you are interested in Rwanda, read Shake Hands with the Devil by Romeo Dallaire, he is Canadian and was the head of the UN mission there for most of it- it's a good book.

Also Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond is an excellent book, it's basically about the last 12,000 years of civilization and why in certain parts of the world civilizations progressed in terms of technologies, farming practices, inventiveness, etc. and while others seemed to stand still, like Africa. (The answer will surprise you but makes TOTAL sense.)
It's fascinating and really well written and easy to read. It talks about what happened in Rwanda and why, VERY interesting.

You can't stay in Iraq forever...there has to be a plan for withdrawal that focuses on training their own people to take over when the US leaves. We need more forces in Afghanistan like GP said, that war is the one to win and we aren't at the moment. Yesterday when Obama was up here they talked about it, he knows I think how important it is to get more troops in there.

Obama will be sending 17,000 more troops this spring and summer.......to Afghanistan...

[MaripositaII]

Originally Posted by UnoMasMezcal

Mari? Are you thinking?

You know I luv ya. Remember. 2 cases of beer for me, and a shopping spree for you!

If I had an idea of how to get out of this mess, I'd become a billionaire overnight, and would then move down to Playa

It's going to be a slow process, and we'll lose a lot along the way. A bloody mess all around.

[STOGEY]

If another country other than china or Mexico were to invade is, being captured as an enemy combatant would be the least of my worries. Besides if that were to happen 3 believe that our sitting president would tell us to lay down our weapons and behave peacefully.

Originally Posted by MaripositaII

For argument's sake, let us say that we're at war with some other country (aren't we always?), and this was done to four American soldiers.

Would you be as understanding? After all, they too are serving their country.

[MaripositaII]

Originally Posted by STOGEY

If another country other than china or Mexico were to invade is, being captured as an enemy combatant would be the least of my worries. Besides if that were to happen 3 believe that our sitting president would tell us to lay down our weapons and behave peacefully.

Let me put this in Babelfish before I give you an answer, okay?

Yahoo! Babel Fish - Text Translation and Web Page Translation

[Luv2Dance]

Originally Posted by STOGEY

If another country other than china or Mexico were to invade is, being captured as an enemy combatant would be the least of my worries. Besides if that were to happen 3 believe that our sitting president would tell us to lay down our weapons and behave peacefully.

Stogey. This is off topic....but....do you use a qwerty keyboard on your phone? I'm half tempted to start a fundraiser thread for you so we can all pitch in to get you one w/qwerty.

[TAPPY]

There was a really good news show on this whole situation (20/20 or Sixty Minutes) - once I saw it, and knew the whole story/situation. I knew I could not judge this guy for doing what he did. Very sad for everyone involved.

[Mikey]

Originally Posted by STOGEY

If another country other than china or Mexico were to invade is, being captured as an enemy combatant would be the least of my worries. Besides if that were to happen 3 believe that our sitting president would tell us to lay down our weapons and behave peacefully.

That's when the assault rifles that have been purchased by millions of people would come into play......

[Skiptown]

Originally Posted by Guitar Playa

Um care to elaborate on how the Iraqi people are threatening your country's freedom?

The "Iraqi people" may be a miss quote but there are several thousand dead from 9/11 that say there is a reason we are fighting the enemy.

War is a very dirty thing and the rules are very different for both sides. Decisions are made in a short timeline and I will never second guess them. I am just glad I don't have to make them.

[mofi]

Originally Posted by TJordan

I will never judge this man for what he did.
He was defending our freedoms as a country
He is more of a man then millions of people in this country.
God Bless You Sgt Michael Leahy Jr

Thank you for your service
To all the men and women who have served your country, I can never thank you enough


Tyler

Defending your freedoms by shooting what may have been innocent civilians in the back of the head?

That sure makes alot of sense.

I understand that he might not have had the best judgement due to what the brainwash you to believe, but that being said, where is the justice for this iraqi family if no one is held responsible? Not doing anything could set a very dangerous precedent, allowing military men to kill whoever they want, even though they could be innocent civilians.


Then the whole idea, which I don't believe, of helping the Iraqi civilians goes straight to hell as well.

[horizon200]

Wow....so many points to counter here! A slippery slope indeed.

1) What he did was wrong...plain and simple. There is never any justification for shooting a blindfolded and gagged person in the back of the head...no matter what side you are on...PERIOD.
2) You can call it "all about oil" all you want. Face facts..Oil is a vital strategic resource for every country on Earth. Maintaining a stabilized region that controls that oil is therefore in our nation's vital interest.
3) Going into Iraq was wrong
4) Mari...Your BIL DID serve a purpose in the first Gulf War. Our stated purpose was to expel the Iraqi Army from Kuwait. We did that and came home. The ONLY war that started and ended with an exit strategy (discounting Grenada and Panama).
5) While I agree that going after Bin Laden has merit. What we now have is the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan Part Deux American Style. A plus up of troops we cannot support. We no longer have viable logistics into the theater...not enough airlift to support the troops that are there let alone the build up. No allies in the area that are willing to stand up to the radicals and waning support from the locals. Not to mention the lack of any semblance of a "ruling" central government.
6) TJ...you can support your troops fully while not supporting illegal acts.
7) Having brought charges and separated several troops, it is not an easy thing to do. But the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the Geneva Convention and the Rules of War are there for a reason. No amount of stress relieves a military member from the responsibility of following them. I had a squadron mate that was a great guy...but he was going through a bad divorce and got into drugs as a method of coping with the stress. He ran out of money and needed more drugs...so while robbing a gas station, he had three teenagers kneel on the floor and shot them in the back of the head. He is serving three consecutive life sentences plus 30 years with no parole. He cracked under pressure. He was tried and convicted as he should have been. Sgt Leahy cracked under pressure and was tried and convicted as he should have been.
8) My "O" key is still sticking!

[TJordan]

Originally Posted by horizon200

Wow....so many points to counter here! A slippery slope indeed.

1) What he did was wrong...plain and simple. There is never any justification for shooting a blindfolded and gagged person in the back of the head...no matter what side you are on...PERIOD.
2) You can call it "all about oil" all you want. Face facts..Oil is a vital strategic resource for every country on Earth. Maintaining a stabilized region that controls that oil is therefore in our nation's vital interest.
3) Going into Iraq was wrong
4) Mari...Your BIL DID serve a purpose in the first Gulf War. Our stated purpose was to expel the Iraqi Army from Kuwait. We did that and came home. The ONLY war that started and ended with an exit strategy (discounting Grenada and Panama).
5) While I agree that going after Bin Laden has merit. What we now have is the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan Part Deux American Style. A plus up of troops we cannot support. We no longer have viable logistics into the theater...not enough airlift to support the troops that are there let alone the build up. No allies in the area that are willing to stand up to the radicals and waning support from the locals. Not to mention the lack of any semblance of a "ruling" central government.
6) TJ...you can support your troops fully while not supporting illegal acts.
7) Having brought charges and separated several troops, it is not an easy thing to do. But the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the Geneva Convention and the Rules of War are there for a reason. No amount of stress relieves a military member from the responsibility of following them. I had a squadron mate that was a great guy...but he was going through a bad divorce and got into drugs as a method of coping with the stress. He ran out of money and needed more drugs...so while robbing a gas station, he had three teenagers kneel on the floor and shot them in the back of the head. He is serving three consecutive life sentences plus 30 years with no parole. He cracked under pressure. He was tried and convicted as he should have been. Sgt Leahy cracked under pressure and was tried and convicted as he should have been.
8) My "O" key is still sticking!

I agree.
Which is also why I said that he deserves to be punished if indeed he comitted a crime.

[JEZ]

Originally Posted by horizon200

Wow....so many points to counter here! A slippery slope indeed.

1) What he did was wrong...plain and simple. There is never any justification for shooting a blindfolded and gagged person in the back of the head...no matter what side you are on...PERIOD.
2) You can call it "all about oil" all you want. Face facts..Oil is a vital strategic resource for every country on Earth. Maintaining a stabilized region that controls that oil is therefore in our nation's vital interest.
3) Going into Iraq was wrong
4) Mari...Your BIL DID serve a purpose in the first Gulf War. Our stated purpose was to expel the Iraqi Army from Kuwait. We did that and came home. The ONLY war that started and ended with an exit strategy (discounting Grenada and Panama).
5) While I agree that going after Bin Laden has merit. What we now have is the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan Part Deux American Style. A plus up of troops we cannot support. We no longer have viable logistics into the theater...not enough airlift to support the troops that are there let alone the build up. No allies in the area that are willing to stand up to the radicals and waning support from the locals. Not to mention the lack of any semblance of a "ruling" central government.
6) TJ...you can support your troops fully while not supporting illegal acts.
7) Having brought charges and separated several troops, it is not an easy thing to do. But the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the Geneva Convention and the Rules of War are there for a reason. No amount of stress relieves a military member from the responsibility of following them. I had a squadron mate that was a great guy...but he was going through a bad divorce and got into drugs as a method of coping with the stress. He ran out of money and needed more drugs...so while robbing a gas station, he had three teenagers kneel on the floor and shot them in the back of the head. He is serving three consecutive life sentences plus 30 years with no parole. He cracked under pressure. He was tried and convicted as he should have been. Sgt Leahy cracked under pressure and was tried and convicted as he should have been.
8) My "O" key is still sticking!

Nicely put.