For those AGAINST universal health care coverage...

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by TAPPY

I think that most of us do care, you would be hard pressed to find people who really dont care about situations like this and others. I do believe that most Americans would love to find a better way. It is finding a way to pay for it, and to over see it, and how to handle the large number of people that will use this system that never pay in to it.

One thing I do admire about the peeps on this board, is anytime some one is in trouble (DJ comes to mind) - people opened their pocketbooks (for you Karen) to help contribute to some ones medical bills. I know that most Americans do care and want a better system.

The opportunity is that there ARE better sytems out there...one can study them and pick and choose the best factors of each program...the problem here is that some folks are just locked in on the myth that our system is the best in the world when the facts just don't bear that out..and certainly the outcomes do not bear that out....we spend more per person with worse outcomes while insuring a smaller percent of our population.

....and also folks get hung up on the fact that new people will use the system who will not pay into it....when you study this, you find out that these folks do get medical care ultimately in our country now..they just get it in the most expensive manner possible...in the emergency room...so beyond the simple altruistic benefit of helping to insure folks who cannot afford insurance (or who are young and think they are infallible), there is the practical benefit of reducing costs by providing healthcare in a more efficient setting, simplifying it my reducing the thousands of different insurance companies, and reducing cost by the shear fact that ALL folks are now insured and the risk is better spread...

Once one finds out that our system is NOT the best system (and that is relatively easy to do if one simply studies the currently active and working systems across the world) , then we just have to find the way to make the transition and pick the best of the existing systems out there that better meets our political and social peculiarities mostly in order to help us get agreement to move forward......a transition we simply must make away from our current system and toward one much more efficient and one that provides better coverage to more people.

[MikeW]

I've said this before.

By the time the US Govt, the lobbyists, the insurance companies, and the politicians put together a Universal Health Care system, the only ones who will have made out will be the politicians with lined pockets of money. Do you really think our politicians are capable of putting together such a plan? I don't.

[STOGEY]

Originally Posted by StewartG

...do we just tell her "Too bad, now go and die?"

No job, no insurance -- Now what? - CNN.com

It may just come to that. I remember watching a movie with Ed Asner in it. I forget the title but it was about basically big brother and how everything including health care costs was monitored by the govt. Ed ended up dying at the end because the govt wouldn't supply him with insulin.

[Bumper]

Originally Posted by Jacko

Once one finds out that our system is NOT the best system (and that is relatively easy to do if one simply studies the currently active and working systems across the world) , then we just have to find the way to make the transition and pick the best of the existing systems out there that better meets our political and social peculiarities......a transition we simply must make away from our current system and toward one much more efficient and one that provides better coverage to more people.

Hallelujah! That's what's needed. For God's sake don't copy the Canadian system as a whole. Or the German system, or the French system, or the Australian system. Take what we've all learned, and pick the best parts of each. We've all spent billions of dollars, and decades of tweaking, trying to get it right, and none of the systems is perfect, but at least we're trying.

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by MikeW

I've said this before.

By the time the US Govt, the lobbyists, the insurance companies, and the politicians put together a Universal Health Care system, the only ones who will have made out will be the politicians with lined pockets of money. Do you really think our politicians are capable of putting together such a plan? I don't.

Yes...if we the people insist upon it. It is happening in other countries...I understand your cynicism Mike, but we must find a way to get government to better serve the people...it is up to us to make that happen.

[STOGEY]

Originally Posted by birdman

Be carefull what you wish for Stewy you may get it, but then you probably don't need it.
I would bet you have very good health coverage, paid for by the law firm---am I right?

Stewie will always have his trust funds to rely on.

[Heather]

Tappy makes a great point, and my intent was not to imply that the people on PI don't care about their fellow countrymen. What I had in mind was an interview with a Canadian man that Michael Moore documented in the movie "Sicko" (and yes, I do agree that MM is a propagandist). This man couldn't conceive of living in a country where only those who could afford it could have access to medical care, and had no qualms about paying into a universal health care system. It was very moving to me and I find it difficult to imagine that there could be anyone who would be against living in such a society. I agree that finding the correct way to implement such a system is going to be extremely difficult.

[STOGEY]

Originally Posted by Heather

I think it's admirable that someone like Stewart, who probably DOES have good healthcare coverage, is concerned about those who don't. It's too bad, imo, that more people in the US don't care about their fellow countrymen in the same way.

I care but I just don't want to pay for someone who shouldn't even be here. Plus I don't need someone like Ted Kennedy for sweetie pie Barney Frank telling me how I should live my life when they won't live that way themselves.

[STOGEY]

Originally Posted by MN Annie

I do think every US citizen should have health coverage.

It did say the lady in the story was cancer free, so maybe the doctor took that into account when the appointment was cancelled.

Hey I live in Arizona and I have ocean front property to sell ya.

[Heather]

Originally Posted by STOGEY

Stewie will always have his trust funds to rely on.

That is really rude, Stogey. How do you know anything about Stewart's life? Has he told you that he relies upon trust funds?

[Heather]

Originally Posted by STOGEY

I care but I just don't want to pay for someone who shouldn't even be here.

I said "fellow countrymen." Which means citizens of the US.

[STOGEY]

Originally Posted by mofi

I don't think the majority of Canadians will tell you that health care here sucks. If you need urgent care you will get it. If it is not vital to survival then you might have to wait, and those who have money will then go elsewhere "Medical Tourism". Plus why would someone go to the US for treatment when they can fly to singapore get better medical care and at a cheaper price? Sinapore is currently one of the highest rated places to travel for medical care, and their prices are 60 percent the prices of american medical care.

That's right. That's where they pay some poor slob for his liver to give to someone else.

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by TAPPY

I think that most of us do care, you would be hard pressed to find people who really dont care about situations like this and others. I do believe that most Americans would love to find a better way. It is finding a way to pay for it, and to over see it, and how to handle the large number of people that will use this system that never pay in to it.

One thing I do admire about the peeps on this board, is anytime some one is in trouble (DJ comes to mind) - people opened their pocketbooks (for you Karen) to help contribute to some ones medical bills. I know that most Americans do care and want a better system.

BOs plan is not a bad one, it just needs to be managed well so it does not end up like medicare - which needs a major revamping...but just try to tinker with medicare and see what happens.

I agree and disagree with you...

I do agree that most Americans care about other Americans. There are some voices on this board that do sometimes seem very, very coldhearted indeed. I would like to think that when push came to shove, in their heart of hearts, even the staunchest conservative on this board would support SOME form of universal health care coverage, as long as it could be run efficiently and effectively.

As to medicare - its really not that bad (except for the drug coverage which is a MONEY PIT), but could definitely use some tweaking.

Some have suggested making medicare an "open enrollment" program, available to ALL Americans on a guaranteed coverage and affordable basis (pricing based on income levels.) This may be a pretty good way to get coverage for a LOT more Americans very quickly. The program is in place and would need only be expanded. Its not perfect, but I think its an idea worth serious exploration.

[user 6507]

To be honest, I worry about what the future holds with regard to genetic profiling and the categorization of people. I know it sounds a bit paranoid, but I can't help but feel we are on the way to a government dictated health regimen and other mandates. A small example are the seat belt and helmet laws we already have. In and of themselves, these are somewhat tolerable, and actually they make good sense. On the other hand, did we really need big brother forcing us to do it? We should tread carefully when we get in to these issues. I'm just saying we should consider everything.....(God I sound paranoid don't I?)

[StewartG]

Originally Posted by MikeW

I've said this before.

By the time the US Govt, the lobbyists, the insurance companies, and the politicians put together a Universal Health Care system, the only ones who will have made out will be the politicians with lined pockets of money. Do you really think our politicians are capable of putting together such a plan? I don't.

That is a very, very, very cynical attitude.


With that attitude toward government and politicians, how can you be comfortable letting the government do ANYTHING? National defense? Highway and infrastructure? Civil defense? Regulate trade?


I would respectfully suggest that if you are THAT cynical about the political process, you simply get more involved in it, rather than just complain!




P.S. You sound JUST like my dad, and I say the exact same thing to him.