Limiting Choice in Pain Management?

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by Luv2Dance

Hydrocodone is generic for vicodin...no?

Edit...what b'loo just said...

[Luv2Dance]

Originally Posted by Babaloo

Vicodin contains hydrocodone AND acetaminophen
Acetaminophen is the issue

Originally Posted by Jacko

Edit...what b'loo just said...

Gotcha....thanks.

[Luv2Dance]

Originally Posted by Jacko

This issue, as I understand it, is more like this...Vicodin and Percoset are multi-compound drugs...for instance Hydrocodone AND Acetominophen....a patient may need more hydrocodone and NOT more acetominophen so with these drugs they just take another Percoset....problem is, we have found out that there are serious side effects to taking too much of any drug..even "safe" drugs like acetominophena in ibuprofen...the theory is eliminate the compound or combination....then, when you need more hydrocodone, you take more hydocodone..or more acetominophen, you take more acetominophen...actually this puts you MORE in control at the sacrifice of a VERY small convenience of the combined drug....

It makes great sense to me....

Well...now I feel much better and not quite so pi$$ed off. Thanks for the explanation.

[Jo]

Those who are crying out about issues of babysitting here and such- I can't agree with that.
Fact is simply that not all people are clever enough when it comes to drugs. And it might even be a majority- even docs sometimes get things wrong when it comes to interactions of drugs and such, and they are the pros. And even IF it is a minority- these are situations that can be avoided.

For me it even starts a lot lower down the chain- with the fact that in many places drugs are sold over the counter, often with very little to none advice going along with it.

Paracetamol can kill. And not many are aware of that- here in Germany as well. Paracetamol in high doses causes liver failure- something else that many don't know, and which the article alludes to. 1600 liver failures= 1600 deaths, or liver transplants. Transplants that could have been avoided.

All drugs should be sold in pharmacies and always come with some sound advice about side effects and such. That is one thing.

The other is what Jacko pointed out- this is actually about being able to control the single dosages better instead of taking a combo.

And for those that think this is the end to all pain management regimens- it isn't. As Jacko mentioned (you have really done your homework here, haven't you ) there are many other products that can be used. Especially for strong pain. Namely morphines and morphine derivates.

[taotoon]

Originally Posted by Babaloo

x-stop surgery is not for you?

I wish I could have the surgery but at my age (27) it is not the best option yet. I have major issues with GA and being under could do some serious damage to me.

[PlayaGroom]

Originally Posted by Jacko

This issue, as I understand it, is more like this...Vicodin and Percoset are multi-compound drugs...for instance Hydrocodone AND Acetominophen....a patient may need more hydrocodone and NOT more acetominophen so with these drugs they just take another Percoset....problem is, we have found out that there are serious side effects to taking too much of any drug..even "safe" drugs like acetominophen or ibuprofen...the theory is eliminate the compound or combination....then, when you need more hydrocodone, you take more hydocodone..or more acetominophen, you take more acetominophen...actually this puts you MORE in control at the sacrifice of a VERY small convenience of the combined drug....

It makes great sense to me....

Exactly.

They're just taking the convenience out of the equation which made it very easy to kill your liver with acetaminophen.

Yes, it stems down to people not reading labels and/or abusing, but this will ultimately make doctors have to train people how to use prescription drugs in combination with OTC.

Imagine that, people actually having to learn how to take a pill (or multiple) correctly, and telling them what is actually in it and not just blindly taking a big combo pill because a doc told them to...the government actually putting the consumer in control of what they're doing to their body through simplification.

[PlayaGroom]

Originally Posted by Jo

Those who are crying out about issues of babysitting here and such- I can't agree with that.
Fact is simply that not all people are clever enough when it comes to drugs. And it might even be a majority- even docs sometimes get things wrong when it comes to interactions of drugs and such, and they are the pros. And even IF it is a minority- these are situations that can be avoided.

For me it even starts a lot lower down the chain- with the fact that in many places drugs are sold over the counter, often with very little to none advice going along with it.

Paracetamol can kill. And not many are aware of that- here in Germany as well. Paracetamol in high doses causes liver failure- something else that many don't know, and which the article alludes to. 1600 liver failures= 1600 deaths, or liver transplants. Transplants that could have been avoided.

All drugs should be sold in pharmacies and always come with some sound advice about side effects and such. That is one thing.

The other is what Jacko pointed out- this is actually about being able to control the single dosages better instead of taking a combo.

And for those that think this is the end to all pain management regimens- it isn't. As Jacko mentioned (you have really done your homework here, haven't you ) there are many other products that can be used. Especially for strong pain. Namely morphines and morphine derivates.

You said it better than me Jo suppose I should read both pages before posting

[STOGEY]

You can thank Michael Jackson for this and his wacky witch doctors:

[Babaloo]

Originally Posted by taotoon

I wish I could have the surgery but at my age (27) it is not the best option yet. I have major issues with GA and being under could do some serious damage to me.

My dad (age 87) is going in Tuesday for the x-stop surgery. He's been in intense pain with cervical stenosis for a long time and the injections have done no good. Oddly enough (for spinal back surgery), it is an out patient procedure. If successful, the results should be immediate. I'm hoping.

[mofi]

Originally Posted by BigRoach

I mean, what I said is just my first reaction... But yeah, what are they gonna give people who are in serious pain? If I was in traction for a broken femur or other major broken bone, or had some sort of serious trauma, and they told me, "here, take this tylenol", I'd tell them to go 'you know what' their 'you know who'.

I'm just sick of the government trying to protect us from ourselves, and block us from all these drugs like we're a nation of children.

Tylenol 3 - with Codeine (sp)? Althought if you are in serious serious pain that may not work.

I think it's a bit stupid, anyone who is addicted to such medications, or is not reading the information that comes with these medications when they are prescribed them, is probably going to find an alternative and do damage anyways. As the saying goes you can't help people who don't want to be helped, and if you're not an addict, and you don't care about what you are taking in conjunction with such medications, then chances are you are going to endanger yourself in other aspects of your life as well.

[taotoon]

Originally Posted by Babaloo

My dad (age 87) is going in Tuesday for the x-stop surgery. He's been in intense pain with cervical stenosis for a long time and the injections have done no good. Oddly enough (for spinal back surgery), it is an out patient procedure. If successful, the results should be immediate. I'm hoping.

That is wonderful for him! I would love to hear how it works out.

[taotoon]

Originally Posted by PlayaGroom

Exactly.

They're just taking the convenience out of the equation which made it very easy to kill your liver with acetaminophen.

Yes, it stems down to people not reading labels and/or abusing, but this will ultimately make doctors have to train people how to use prescription drugs in combination with OTC.

Imagine that, people actually having to learn how to take a pill (or multiple) correctly, and telling them what is actually in it and not just blindly taking a big combo pill because a doc told them to...the government actually putting the consumer in control of what they're doing to their body through simplification.

It would not be that big of an issue but the meds without the Tylenol (oxycodon to be specific) can be really hard to find, in fact, there was recently a massive shortage of them that left a lot of people having to scramble to receive the pain treatments they need. If they take the percocet/vicoden off the market before companies have made new stocks in the other meds then there could be a lot more shortage issues occurring that could cause major pain, as well as withdrawal issues.

And no, just because your body withdraws does not mean you are addicted. There is a big difference between addiction and physical dependence. A person is physically dependant on anti-depressant meds and will face withdrawal if taken off abruptly but no one would ever say they are addicted to Prozac because of that withdrawal. It is the same with pain meds.

[Just Lucky]

Originally Posted by taotoon

It would not be that big of an issue but the meds without the Tylenol (oxycodon to be specific) can be really hard to find, in fact, there was recently a massive shortage of them that left a lot of people having to scramble to receive the pain treatments they need. If they take the percocet/vicoden off the market before companies have made new stocks in the other meds then there could be a lot more shortage issues occurring that could cause major pain, as well as withdrawal issues.

And no, just because your body withdraws does not mean you are addicted. There is a big difference between addiction and physical dependence. A person is physically dependant on anti-depressant meds and will face withdrawal if taken off abruptly but no one would ever say they are addicted to Prozac because of that withdrawal. It is the same with pain meds.

I believe Oxycodone is legally a different level of pain medication. The prescriptions are written out in multiple copies and the DEA and other agencies pay closer attention to doctors who write them.

Unless your first name is Rush....

[Jacko]

Originally Posted by Just Lucky

I believe Oxycodone is legally a different level of pain medication. The prescriptions are written out in multiple copies and the DEA and other agencies pay closer attention to doctors who write them.

Unless your first name is Rush....

I believe that Percoset is an oxycodone blend (w/acetomenophen) and Vicodin is a hydrocodone blend (w/acetominophen)...I cannot imagine that there is a shortage of generic oxycodone or generic hydrocodone....if there is, this would be rectified completely if blends are wisely eliminated....

A great explanation here that I have highly recommended for those who have an interest in the truth of pain management......

From the article...

The term weak opioid is a confusing term. Combining a low dose of an opioid with acetaminophen, ibuprofen, or aspirin, improves efficacy (gives the desired effect). Adding hydrocodone and oxycodone to other substances make them weak opioids. This is because there are dose limits to these products. The dose of the combined product is not limited by the opioid. It is limited by the non-opioid component. Exceeding the daily-recommended dose greatly increases the risk of dangerous side effects from the non-opioid component. Hydrocodone and oxycodone are low dose strong opioids without the added acetaminophen, ibuprofen, or aspirin.

[taotoon]

Originally Posted by Jacko

)...I cannot imagine that there is a shortage of generic oxycodone or generic hydrocodone....if there is, this would be rectified completely if blends are wisely eliminated....

That is what I thought when I first heard of it but I belong to a pain management board and it was a major issue in March/April. With the DEA cracking down so hard because of the flufftards that abuse pain pills it has become increasingly hard to get the medication when you need it. Quantities are limited, amounts made are limited and if there is something like a re-call or a factory outage it can greatly decrease the amount available. It is a sad fact that people deal with chronic pain have to face.