Self Defense or Murder ? - Page 2

gingele · 06-01-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by STOGEY

Are you saying that lawyers aren't human?

I'll leave that to you and minnjim.

Savant · 06-01-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by minnjim

No sound at work......
If the guy was dead after bullet #1, what do bullets #2 through #6 change about the intent?

Well apparently he shot him 5 more times because 'he moved' so he wasn't dead after bullet 1.

Hard to imagine he was a threat after being shot in the head and still lying on the floor. It is not credible to suggest he was about to spring into action again or could not be contained without blasting him a few more times just in case.

Self defence no longer covered his actions; some might think it fine to execute him anyway but that is not lawful which is why the verdict was correct.

January Guy · 06-01-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by D33RHUNT3R

Then He is still a danger... its still self defense.. once the punk pointed a gun.... all bets are off..

I don't think the kid who got killed had the gun but his buddy did. Correct me if I am wrong though.

That does have some impact on my feelings about this one.

Seakony · 06-01-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by gingele

Bullet #1 to the head might have been self defense.

Walk out the front door chasing the accomplice, come back inside, step over the body to retrieve gun #2 and proceed to put bullets #2,3,4,5 and 6 to the body on the floor? No way.

But don't take my word for it, just ask the 12 men and women on the jury.

How many people keep hitting, or stomping on a spider more than once to make sure it's dead?

gingele · 06-01-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by D33RHUNT3R

Then He is still a danger... its still self defense.. once the punk pointed a gun.... all bets are off..

Problem is that the pharmacist certainly did not act like he thought he was still in danger. He literally stepped over the kid to go get the second gun.

But I think that any further attempt to clarify this for you will be an act of complete futility so I'll just stop now before I lose more precious moments that can never be reclaimed.

STOGEY · 06-01-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savant

Well apparently he shot him 5 more times because 'he moved' so he wasn't dead after bullet 1.

Hard to imagine he was a threat after being shot in the head and still lying on the floor. It is not credible to suggest he was about to spring into action again or could not be contained without blasting him a few more times just in case.

Self defence no longer covered his actions; some might think it fine to execute him anyway but that is not lawful which is why the verdict was correct.

It's been a while since I shot someone in anger. However if someone's high then it may take a while to stop him.

gingele · 06-01-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seakony

How many people keep hitting, or stomping on a spider more than once to make sure it's dead?

Dehumanization is a powerful tool.

minnjim · 06-01-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by melliedee

The pharmacist testified that he was still alive.

Ahhhh......Yes, that kinda changes things.

(Like I said, no sound.

)

STOGEY · 06-01-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by January Guy

I don't think the kid who got killed had the gun but his buddy did. Correct me if I am wrong though.

That does have some impact on my feelings about this one.

At b n e school we were told that we couldn't get health or life insurance because it was considered too risky.

gingele · 06-01-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by January Guy

I don't think the kid who got killed had the gun but his buddy did. Correct me if I am wrong though.

That does have some impact on my feelings about this one.

You are correct, the kid he killed did not have a gun.

STOGEY · 06-01-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seakony

How many people keep hitting, or stomping on a spider more than once to make sure it's dead?

None without my lawyer present. Sheesh a guy being video taped stomping a big ugly spider would do time.

Seakony · 06-01-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by gingele

Dehumanization is a powerful tool.

I don't think of thugs with a gun as human. I see them as a threat. Especially if they are still moving after they were shot.

Seakony · 06-01-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by STOGEY

None without my lawyer present. Sheesh a guy being video taped stomping a big ugly spider would do time.

only with a liberal jury and judge.

gingele · 06-01-2011

I'm not surprised in the least that this guy's defense of self-defense failed utterly.

However, as I think about it (and not knowing anything more about the case than what was reported in the original video), I AM surprised that he was convicted of first-degree murder.

There are usually lesser forms of intentional homicide, and it is interesting - at least to me - that the jury basically went for the most heinous kind of murder that they could tag him with.

The facts are pretty damning, but the prosecution must have done one helluva job, and/or his defense atty was not so great.

gingele · 06-01-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seakony

only with a liberal jury and judge.

Do they even have such things in Oklahoma?

View Poll Results: Self Defense or Murder ??
Self Defense.	14	73.68%
Murder.	5	26.32%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

06-01-2011	#29 (permalink)
gingele añejo Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 11,433	I'm not surprised in the least that this guy's defense of self-defense failed utterly. However, as I think about it (and not knowing anything more about the case than what was reported in the original video), I AM surprised that he was convicted of first-degree murder. There are usually lesser forms of intentional homicide, and it is interesting - at least to me - that the jury basically went for the most heinous kind of murder that they could tag him with. The facts are pretty damning, but the prosecution must have done one helluva job, and/or his defense atty was not so great.

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View Poll Results: Self Defense or Murder ??