Animals in the Circus

[Nichola830]

I am a circus artist and as a result I have worked in many shows that involve animal acts. I have many times incountered people defending animal rights who think it is terrible that there are animals in the circus.

In response to my introducing myself as a circus artist here in the forum, another forum member stated

'Understand that many of us are not fans of circuses because of their treatment of animals.'

A sweeping generalised statement that I come across frequently

Firstly not all circuses have animals, so to say you're not a fan of circuses because of their treatment of animals is like saying 'I'm not a fan of sports because boxing is violent' or 'I'm not a fan of going to the cinema because I don't like horror films'.

Secondly, what is this so called 'treatment' that you object to? I would hazard a guess as to say that this refers to them being mistreated in some way. Do you think animals being mistreated is exclusive to the circus? And that it happens in every circus? By this logic, no one should have pets. All pet owners must mistreat their animals, because I've heard that some do, so all pet owners must be terrible people and not allowed to have animals Sound ridiculous?? I think so.

Thirdly, I also get the comment that they should be in the wild and shouldn't be trained. Again, by that logic all dogs and cats and fish should be in the wild too. And you certainly can't train a dog to fetch, sit, walk at heal, only use the bathroom outside etc. because thats cruelty.
Why is OK to teach a dog to sit and beg, but its not OK to teach him to jump or somersault?

Well I guess thats all to get the ball rolling, I do like a good debate and hearing others perspectives, and actually I have never had an animal act nor do I find them particularly interesting, but I do resent being judged and tarred with an ignorant and hugely generalised brush.

[wolfpf]

First off, I don't care what you do for a living. Sounds kinda neat to be a circus artist, and I'm curious on what it is you do (you said your husband's a clown, but don't know what a "circus artist" does)

Originally Posted by Nichola830

I am a circus artist and as a result I have worked in many shows that involve animal acts. I have many times incountered people defending animal rights who think it is terrible that there are animals in the circus.

In response to my introducing myself as a circus artist here in the forum, another forum member stated

'Understand that many of us are not fans of circuses because of their treatment of animals.'

Have to say I agree with Babaloo on this one. I am not a fan or circuses with animals, zoos, dolphins swims, etc, etc, etc... Nor am I a fan of pet stores that sell animals. But that's my personal opinion. I think alot of people from (and visiting) Playa have just seen too many atrocious things done to animals to keep quiet about this topic (myself included). Between drugged lion cubs (here and here), abused dogs (here) and yes, mistreated circus animals (here and here) it's quite prevelant in the area.

A sweeping generalised statement that I come across frequently

Firstly not all circuses have animals, so to say you're not a fan of circuses because of their treatment of animals is like saying 'I'm not a fan of sports because boxing is violent' or 'I'm not a fan of going to the cinema because I don't like horror films'.

Secondly, what is this so called 'treatment' that you object to? I would hazard a guess as to say that this refers to them being mistreated in some way. Do you think animals being mistreated is exclusive to the circus? And that it happens in every circus? By this logic, no one should have pets. All pet owners must mistreat their animals, because I've heard that some do, so all pet owners must be terrible people and not allowed to have animals Sound ridiculous?? I think so.

Thirdly, I also get the comment that they should be in the wild and shouldn't be trained. Again, by that logic all dogs and cats and fish should be in the wild too. And you certainly can't train a dog to fetch, sit, walk at heal, only use the bathroom outside etc. because thats cruelty.
Why is OK to teach a dog to sit and beg, but its not OK to teach him to jump or somersault?

Sorry, but I see no logic in comparing cats and dogs to circus animals. Circus animals, even if breed in captivity are still "wild" animals. Cats and dogs were domesticated by humans thousands of years ago. Most of them would not be able to survive in the wild as the traits that allowed them to survive (hunting, fighting, flight, etc) have been bred out of them.
Origin of the domesticated dog
Origin of the domesticated cat

Well I guess thats all to get the ball rolling, I do like a good debate and hearing others perspectives, and actually I have never had an animal act nor do I find them particularly interesting, but I do resent being judged and tarred with an ignorant and hugely generalised brush.

And let the debate begin

[Nichola830]

I have also seen the drugged animals on 5th and I think its terrible.

[Nichola830]

Oh sorry I forgot to answer your question about what I do!

I have a few acts, quick change magic, contortion (though getting a bit old to do that now) I have been known to climb a rope and do a few tricks, acrobatics and I perform with my husband in comedy sketches.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by Nichola830

Thirdly, I also get the comment that they should be in the wild and shouldn't be trained. Again, by that logic all dogs and cats and fish should be in the wild too. And you certainly can't train a dog to fetch, sit, walk at heal, only use the bathroom outside etc. because thats cruelty.

Not the same. You are comparing domesticated animals to wild ones.


For the record: I am completely and avidly against caging and using wild animals to earn money. I am not against circuses, if they don't do this.

[Babaloo]

Thanks for following my advice.

As far as the drugged animals on 5th....there has been a very strong effort locally to curb that practice.

You live here now. When the caged animals are driven down your street, give me your opinion.

And I never meant to say that "all" circuses involve animals. The circuses that set up in Playa do (for the most part).

The last circus in town (perhaps yours) had a protest regarding the treatment of the animals.

Most animal welfare proponents have concerns with circuses as well as rodeos, bull fighting and horse/dog racing.

Even the larger circuses outside of Mexico (Ringling, for example) are under investigation for their treatment of animals.

Thanks for starting this.

[Sue]

Originally Posted by Nichola830

I am a circus artist and as a result I have worked in many shows that involve animal acts. I have many times incountered people defending animal rights who think it is terrible that there are animals in the circus.

In response to my introducing myself as a circus artist here in the forum, another forum member stated

'Understand that many of us are not fans of circuses because of their treatment of animals.'

A sweeping generalised statement that I come across frequently

Firstly not all circuses have animals, so to say you're not a fan of circuses because of their treatment of animals is like saying 'I'm not a fan of sports because boxing is violent' or 'I'm not a fan of going to the cinema because I don't like horror films'.

Secondly, what is this so called 'treatment' that you object to? I would hazard a guess as to say that this refers to them being mistreated in some way. Do you think animals being mistreated is exclusive to the circus? And that it happens in every circus? By this logic, no one should have pets. All pet owners must mistreat their animals, because I've heard that some do, so all pet owners must be terrible people and not allowed to have animals Sound ridiculous?? I think so.

Thirdly, I also get the comment that they should be in the wild and shouldn't be trained. Again, by that logic all dogs and cats and fish should be in the wild too. And you certainly can't train a dog to fetch, sit, walk at heal, only use the bathroom outside etc. because thats cruelty.
Why is OK to teach a dog to sit and beg, but its not OK to teach him to jump or somersault?

Well I guess thats all to get the ball rolling, I do like a good debate and hearing others perspectives, and actually I have never had an animal act nor do I find them particularly interesting, but I do resent being judged and tarred with an ignorant and hugely generalised brush.

Your "logic" is way off.

People that say they are against circuses that use animals aren't against all circuses. They are against circuses that use animals, if they mistreat them.

Because we feel that animals are often mistreated in circuses does not mean that we feel animals are not mistreated everywhere else. We are very aware that it happens all across the world. But because animal abuse happens outside the circus, that is no excuse for animal abuse to happen inside the circus.

Understanding that circus animals are mistreated does not mean that people should not have pets. I can't even understand why you went there.

Some circuses mistreat their animals. Some people mistreat their pets.

Animals are getting the short end of the stick, in my opinion...around the world. Beaten and macheted and euthanized and abused....And if a circus uses a stick to "train" animals, it is a circus I will never support.

Yeah, sorry. But your "logic" is way off.

[Sue]

And, since you work for the circus here, with all of the wild animals that are there confined in cages....


That's enough right there, isn't it?

But I would like you to address the fact that the papers here are reporting that the circus is paying people to bring in street dogs to feed to the "wild animals."

[Sue]

never mind

[Nichola830]

My reference to people not having pets was to highlight that not all pet owners mistreat their animals just as not all circuses mistreat their animals.

I am also not in agreement with animals being caged up all day without having space or exercise. This would relate to animals such as tigers and elephants for example, as even though the circus that I recently worked for, which was in playa, had bigger 'pen' type cages for them to wonder around in during the day, it still doesn't seem big enough for a tiger.

But on the other hand, horses that get ridden everyday in the circus get great exercise, as with dogs. I know many dog owners that never talk their dog for a walk! Whereas a dog that learns discipline and jumping etc in the circus gets lots of love, attention and exercise.

In all the circuses all around the world that I have worked in I have never seen an animal being hit as a form of training. All animals I have witnessed being trained was with treats/food rewards.

With reference to the reports in the paper to the circus paying people to bring stray dogs to feed the animals, it is completely false. The big cats are fed chicken every day. There was a report on the news (azteca) to show that these claims were false, fabricated by a protester.

Apart from it being absolutely ridiculous, there is no way the circus would risk making the tigers sick by feeding them street dogs that potentially have infections and disease such as rabies. Also the zoo part of the circus is always on display to the public, as well as feeding time, if the circus were feeding the animals stray dogs, its strange that no one ever caught it on camera.

[Ginger]

Originally Posted by Nichola830

My reference to people not having pets was to highlight that not all pet owners mistreat their animals just as not all circuses mistreat their animals.

Wild animals, kept in cages, forced to do tricks for food = mistreating animals.

Sorry. That's a fact.

[melliedee]

Nichola, when you say the "zoo part" of the circus, what do you mean? Do zoologists and veterinarians officially work for the circus?

This has always been an interesting debate for me. I don't like circuses, but mostly because I do not like clowns. I know that some animal activists feel the same way about zoos, and I disagree with that. Zoologists are often the most ardent conservationists. That's why I'd be interested in the credentials of those who care for the animals in the "zoo" portion of your circus. Are the big cats purchased? Rescued? Do you have elephants?

Aside from that, welcome! Where have you traveled? What's the weirdest thing to happen during a circus performance? And, as long as you're browsing the Off Topic section, do you like politics? We could really use some new blood. Er, voices and opinions.

[Sue]

Thank heavens the dog feeding thing isn't true!!!!

Originally Posted by Nichola830

My reference to people not having pets was to highlight that not all pet owners mistreat their animals just as not all circuses mistreat their animals.

I am also not in agreement with animals being caged up all day without having space or exercise. This would relate to animals such as tigers and elephants for example, as even though the circus that I recently worked for, which was in playa, had bigger 'pen' type cages for them to wonder around in during the day, it still doesn't seem big enough for a tiger.

But on the other hand, horses that get ridden everyday in the circus get great exercise, as with dogs. I know many dog owners that never talk their dog for a walk! Whereas a dog that learns discipline and jumping etc in the circus gets lots of love, attention and exercise.

In all the circuses all around the world that I have worked in I have never seen an animal being hit as a form of training. All animals I have witnessed being trained was with treats/food rewards.

With reference to the reports in the paper to the circus paying people to bring stray dogs to feed the animals, it is completely false. The big cats are fed chicken every day. There was a report on the news (azteca) to show that these claims were false, fabricated by a protester.

Apart from it being absolutely ridiculous, there is no way the circus would risk making the tigers sick by feeding them street dogs that potentially have infections and disease such as rabies. Also the zoo part of the circus is always on display to the public, as well as feeding time, if the circus were feeding the animals stray dogs, its strange that no one ever caught it on camera.

[melliedee]

Originally Posted by Ginger

Wild animals, kept in cages, forced to do tricks for food = mistreating animals.

Sorry. That's a fact.

What about the farm kids showing their horses (4H) at the local fair? They have a category called horse dancing and other competitive events. Horses are kept in barn stalls. Many of them are technically "performance" animals.

[mack]

Originally Posted by Ginger

Wild animals, kept in cages, forced to do tricks for food = mistreating animals.

Sorry. That's a fact.

That sounds more like an opinion. Calling an opinion a fact doesn't make it so.