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Old 06-14-2014   #1 (permalink)
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Pepper spray guns legal?

Legal or not? If someone hypothetically had one in mexico that was not taken at customs would it be something to keep at home or could it be brought in vehicles. Personally I lean towards keeping it at a home as a just in case. I really don't know how to explain in spanish that it's not a real gun. IDK I looked it up and cannot seem to find any information except tsa says it's ok, and pepper spray is allowed?

http://www.amazon.com/Mace-Pepper-Gu...words=mace+gun

I should add many months of time in the area and I've never felt threatened, I'm more curious if something is legal or not. I've had only excellent experiences driving everywhere between cancun, chetumal and the free zone.

Last edited by AKLydia; 06-14-2014 at 04:57 AM..
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Old 06-14-2014   #2 (permalink)
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The use of pepper pray against a human is nominally illegal in the state of QR (they showed me the statute). That said, I carry a small inhaler-size pepper spray at all times (available for 100 pesos at 'Sargento's', the police and EMT equipment store on the west side of Avenida 30 between calle 50 and 52, or near there), for use against dogs - no problem there.

I also had occasion to use it against two home invaders - it worked fine - but I was arrested anyway because the cops don't know the law. In Mexico, as in the US generally, the 'Castle Doctrine' applies - a man's home is his castle, and you are allowed to use any proportionate force, up to and including lethal force, to protect yourself, and your home, and its occupants, etc. The cops here do know the Castle Doctrine, but either don't know what to make of it in actual practice, or are simply following the department policy of arresting the foreigner on a trumped-up nonsense charge and holding him hostage till he pays an arbitrary fine (it's called a 'multa').

I'm a foreigner and don't speak good Spanish, and it's easier for the cops to simply arrest the foreigner and hold him for ransom (a 'fine'). I learned this once the hard way - scared hell out of my family, who coughed up money to a corrupt attorney to bribe the corrupt judge, and I was then released.

The next day I went to the State Office of Human Rights (now located on the north side of Ave 28 de Julio about three blocks west of the highway), which jumped on it like a dog on a bone, charged the two cops with abuse of authority, etc. The Police Department wanted to fire them and send them to jail for 6 months.

As I eventually figured out, this was a ruse to get the Police Department off the hook by merely sacrificing the two low-level expendable cops, who were simply doing what their commanders told them to do. Long story somewhat shortened: I defended the 2 cops by calling out the Police Department policy, saved the 2 cops and their jobs, and 'forced' the Police Department to write a new manual and re-train everybody, from the top down, which they claimed they did (and which the Human Rights office confirmed, showing me the new manual. Hand shaking and smiles all around, etc.).

It didn't take though - apparently it was only for cosmetic 'show' - and the same corrupt policy of arresting the foreigner (that would be you) on a nonsense, trumped-up charge and holding him hostage until he pays an arbitrary fine is still in effect. So, beware - you can defend yourself with pepper spray - even though it's nominally against the law to use it unless you're defending yourself. But you'll have to convince the cops that you're entitled to defend yourself - and you'll likely lose.

So, you will be arrested anyway, under the corrupt policy of arresting the non-Spanish-speaking foreigner, because it's simply easier to do it that way - and of course they wouldn't be able get any of your money unless they arrest you, so they will arrest you (or threaten to, in which case you could 'offer to pay the fine right now'...).

If you're in the right in defending yourself, stand your ground, but talk politely to them (nobody likes a smart ass) - they will be polite but firm, too, and will treat you well, call the US Consul, etc. - they're nice guys, generally - so resign yourself to going to a holding cell for several hours, because 1) hostage-taking is still current department policy, and 2) they simply do not know what else to do, and exercising any initiative is beyond their pay grade.

All of this (Police Department hostage-taking and resultant abuse of authority as matters of department policy) is currently under review by the Office of Human Rights. In the meanwhile, to answer your question, get rid of the 'gun' - it just looks too 'gun-like' and will immediately start you off on the wrong foot. Get a small pepper spray instead, carry it in your 'easy-access' pocket or cell phone holster, and do not hesitate to use it against dogs or humans if they attack you, or threaten to, if you reasonably believe that your health, welfare, or life are endangered. Suerte.
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Old 06-14-2014   #3 (permalink)
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A friend of mine, who didn't know the laws or her rights here, had a somewhat heated verbal argument with her landlady, who called the cops. My friend invited the cops in to her apartment, which she shouldn't have done, but she's friendly and wanted to clear things up. The cops searched my friend's home, found her small inhaler-sized canister of pepper spray, and threatened to arrest her unless she gave them 6000 pesos. Scared, she got them to settle for 3000. This happened last week.
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Old 06-14-2014   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Heather View Post
A friend of mine, who didn't know the laws or her rights here, had a somewhat heated verbal argument with her landlady, who called the cops. My friend invited the cops in to her apartment, which she shouldn't have done, but she's friendly and wanted to clear things up. The cops searched my friend's home, found her small inhaler-sized canister of pepper spray, and threatened to arrest her unless she gave them 6000 pesos. Scared, she got them to settle for 3000. This happened last week.
It's not illegal to own pepper spray, but it is 'nominally' illegal to use it on humans - unless you're being attacked - and it's OK to protect yourself against attacking (or threatening) dogs.

Foreigners are considered to be 'rich' relative to the local population, and thus a viable source of ready money ('money on the hoof') - otherwise, how could you afford to 1) fly here, and 2) live here. Scams are rampant here, and cops are no exception. First rule, don't invite them in - in fact, refuse them entry. They cannot come in, or even pass your gate or mount your stairs unless you invite them in (murders and the like excepted). Second, if you don't let them in, and they state that you will not be arrested but they would like you to accompany them to the Police Station to 'talk', refuse their invitation - it's a scam to arrest you, which they cannot do if you won't let them in.

The cops abused their authority, and would be punished if there were a paper trail to follow (i.e., if she had been arrested) - otherwise, it's 'he said, she said'. But your friend can try the Office of Human Rights on Av. 28 de July. They will help if they can. It's a state office, and is not associated with the Police Dept here. Suerte!
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Old 06-14-2014   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beam-eye View Post
The use of pepper pray against a human is nominally illegal in the state of QR (they showed me the statute). That said, I carry a small inhaler-size pepper spray at all times (available for 100 pesos at 'Sargento's', the police and EMT equipment store on the west side of Avenida 30 between calle 50 and 52, or near there), for use against dogs - no problem there.

I also had occasion to use it against two home invaders - it worked fine - but I was arrested anyway because the cops don't know the law. In Mexico, as in the US generally, the 'Castle Doctrine' applies - a man's home is his castle, and you are allowed to use any proportionate force, up to and including lethal force, to protect yourself, and your home, and its occupants, etc. The cops here do know the Castle Doctrine, but either don't know what to make of it in actual practice, or are simply following the department policy of arresting the foreigner on a trumped-up nonsense charge and holding him hostage till he pays an arbitrary fine (it's called a 'multa').

I'm a foreigner and don't speak good Spanish, and it's easier for the cops to simply arrest the foreigner and hold him for ransom (a 'fine'). I learned this once the hard way - scared hell out of my family, who coughed up money to a corrupt attorney to bribe the corrupt judge, and I was then released.

The next day I went to the State Office of Human Rights (now located on the north side of Ave 28 de Julio about three blocks west of the highway), which jumped on it like a dog on a bone, charged the two cops with abuse of authority, etc. The Police Department wanted to fire them and send them to jail for 6 months.

As I eventually figured out, this was a ruse to get the Police Department off the hook by merely sacrificing the two low-level expendable cops, who were simply doing what their commanders told them to do. Long story somewhat shortened: I defended the 2 cops by calling out the Police Department policy, saved the 2 cops and their jobs, and 'forced' the Police Department to write a new manual and re-train everybody, from the top down, which they claimed they did (and which the Human Rights office confirmed, showing me the new manual. Hand shaking and smiles all around, etc.).

It didn't take though - apparently it was only for cosmetic 'show' - and the same corrupt policy of arresting the foreigner (that would be you) on a nonsense, trumped-up charge and holding him hostage until he pays an arbitrary fine is still in effect. So, beware - you can defend yourself with pepper spray - even though it's nominally against the law to use it unless you're defending yourself. But you'll have to convince the cops that you're entitled to defend yourself - and you'll likely lose.

So, you will be arrested anyway, under the corrupt policy of arresting the non-Spanish-speaking foreigner, because it's simply easier to do it that way - and of course they wouldn't be able get any of your money unless they arrest you, so they will arrest you (or threaten to, in which case you could 'offer to pay the fine right now'...).

If you're in the right in defending yourself, stand your ground, but talk politely to them (nobody likes a smart ass) - they will be polite but firm, too, and will treat you well, call the US Consul, etc. - they're nice guys, generally - so resign yourself to going to a holding cell for several hours, because 1) hostage-taking is still current department policy, and 2) they simply do not know what else to do, and exercising any initiative is beyond their pay grade.

All of this (Police Department hostage-taking and resultant abuse of authority as matters of department policy) is currently under review by the Office of Human Rights. In the meanwhile, to answer your question, get rid of the 'gun' - it just looks too 'gun-like' and will immediately start you off on the wrong foot. Get a small pepper spray instead, carry it in your 'easy-access' pocket or cell phone holster, and do not hesitate to use it against dogs or humans if they attack you, or threaten to, if you reasonably believe that your health, welfare, or life are endangered. Suerte.
THANK YOU for this information! This is very valuable.
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Old 06-16-2014   #6 (permalink)
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Wasp and hornet spray can be very handy for general purpose use around the home. That stuff will reach out 20 feet and bring an ox to his knees!
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Old 06-16-2014   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ranchhand1024 View Post
Wasp and hornet spray can be very handy for general purpose use around the home. That stuff will reach out 20 feet and bring an ox to his knees!
Never thought that. Good idea. Not something you want to pack around town, but great idea for home protection.
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Old 06-16-2014   #8 (permalink)
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"I'm terribly sorry. We've had a problem with wasps and since I naturally didn't expect to see another person in my house/yard I just sprayed at what I thought was a swarm. Once I realized it was a person I stopped immediately. I hope the burglar is OK."
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Old 06-16-2014   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKLydia View Post
Legal or not? If someone hypothetically had one in mexico that was not taken at customs would it be something to keep at home or could it be brought in vehicles. Personally I lean towards keeping it at a home as a just in case. I really don't know how to explain in spanish that it's not a real gun. IDK I looked it up and cannot seem to find any information except tsa says it's ok, and pepper spray is allowed?

http://www.amazon.com/Mace-Pepper-Gu...words=mace+gun

I should add many months of time in the area and I've never felt threatened, I'm more curious if something is legal or not. I've had only excellent experiences driving everywhere between cancun, chetumal and the free zone.
We packed pepper spray, and it made it through customs, for a neighbor in Playa, that requested it.
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Old 06-17-2014   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstevens View Post
"I'm terribly sorry. We've had a problem with wasps and since I naturally didn't expect to see another person in my house/yard I just sprayed at what I thought was a swarm. Once I realized it was a person I stopped immediately. I hope the burglar is OK."
Perfect.
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