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Old 08-24-2017   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Stormin View Post
Maternity coverage is mandatory in health insurance policies. Without it young people would pay around $17,000 per year ADDITIONAL premiums for maternity coverage.
Where did you get such a ludicrous number? You do realize that the average cost to deliver a baby in the US was about half that amount. By what metric would the annual price of insurance cost twice that of the event to be insured against, especially since the event is typically not an annual one?

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Cost shifting for uncompensated care.
The biggest offender being Medicare and Medicaid.
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Old 08-24-2017   #47 (permalink)
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from 2014, but very informative for some of you on here who prefer to think only in old BS chestnuts and incorrect stereotypes and assumptions when it comes to our healthcare system up here.



lotssss of you should watch this- although I am sure most of you will be tempted to mansplain to her why she is wrong, good thing it's a video! lol

Excellent video. That Canadian Doctor was very knowledgeable. Senator Burr tried and tried to promote false information and allegation. She responded with facts that refuted his claims. The American counterpart was an ill informed peddler of falsehoods and innuendo. Bernie pretty much countered her false claims and ridiculous statements.
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Old 08-24-2017   #48 (permalink)
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Where did you get such a ludicrous number? You do realize that the average cost to deliver a baby in the US was about half that amount. By what metric would the annual price of insurance cost twice that of the event to be insured against, especially since the event is typically not an annual one?


The biggest offender being Medicare and Medicaid.
Insurance covers complications and the baby could be premature or have health issues and not a routine delivery. That could be an astronomical cost. Insurance Companies make sure their asses are covered.

I know of a couple who had a premature baby with health problems about 17 years ago. No insurance. They are still paying. Believe the costs of being in intensive care for that premature baby of about 2 pounds were close to a half million or more. Back then. Spent a few months in intensive care and stuff. The diaper that baby boy wore was so tiny.

Premature births occur in about 1 out of 8 deliveries. They are usually at least 11 times more expensive to deliver. Lots of premature births and lots of extra costs. Insurance companies factor that in.

Last edited by Stormin; 08-24-2017 at 10:50 AM..
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Old 08-24-2017   #49 (permalink)
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Insurance covers complications and the baby could be premature or have health issues and not a routine delivery. That could be an astronomical cost. Insurance Companies make sure their asses are covered.

I know of a couple who had a premature baby with health problems about 17 years ago. No insurance. They are still paying. Believe the costs of being in intensive care for that premature baby of about 2 pounds were close to a half million or more. Back then. Spent a few months in intensive care and stuff. The diaper that baby boy wore was so tiny.

Premature births occur in about 1 out of 8 deliveries. They are usually at least 11 times more expensive to deliver. Lots of premature births and lots of extra costs. Insurance companies factor that in.
You do realize that the word "average" takes into account all of the exceptions you cited? Try again.
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Old 08-24-2017   #50 (permalink)
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The US has about 10 times more people than Canada. 90% of Canadians live within 100 miles of the US border (making its population more concentrated than the US). Canada's population is far more homogenous. Canada has 11 companies in the world's fortune 500. The US has 132. In 2016 (the latest available) Canada spent 17.2% of GDP on social expenditures. The US, 19.3%
https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=SOCX_AGG

Some people are just spoiled and the grass always looks greener. In this case, it just has more snow cover.
well, we have fewer companies, with a lower population...therefore fewer companies in the top 500...this is not hard to figure out why.

and not a big difference between 17% and 19%....it's about priorities, really.

And I addressed this in the other thread- you are incorrect about us being "far more homogenous". Perhaps you are thinking of the situation our countries were in 20 years ago, I am not sure. But today that is not accurate at all.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c867e741a85a

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The monthly insurance premiums are at least 10% to 20% of your income. Hell ACA even with subsidies only drops your premium to around 10% of income. And then we have deductibles and coinsurance as well on top of it.

I have noticed that Canadians generally get more vacation time than we do here in the USA as well. Are there a lot of Unions in Canada. Not so much here in the USA anymore and wages and benefits have been kind of stagnant. CEO pay is off the charts.
We get 2-3 weeks of mandated vacation per year - that varies by province, in mine you get minimum three paid weeks of vacation, others are two. Then your employer gives you more depending on length of service- like anywhere.

Plus there are more paid stat holidays in Canada- we have ten of those on top of vacation days.

CEO pay is fairly high here but not imo at ridiculous levels. I work for a global company that usually makes over a billion dollar US profit per year- his salary is about 4 million US. I don't personally see that as totally out of line.

Unions- there are less of them all the time but many industries still have them- mining, auto, teaching, nurses, gov't jobs. There is one where I work but of course I am in an exempt job. I'm not a big fan of most unions in general but at the same time, many times the company deserves them....

Our economy is fairly stable bordering on stagnant at the moment. The oil industry is down but that is worse news for Alberta than my province. It's showing signs of recovery though. Typical up and down cycle, it will rebound.
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Old 08-24-2017   #51 (permalink)
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Insurance covers complications and the baby could be premature or have health issues and not a routine delivery. That could be an astronomical cost. Insurance Companies make sure their asses are covered.

I know of a couple who had a premature baby with health problems about 17 years ago. No insurance. They are still paying. Believe the costs of being in intensive care for that premature baby of about 2 pounds were close to a half million or more. Back then. Spent a few months in intensive care and stuff. The diaper that baby boy wore was so tiny.

Premature births occur in about 1 out of 8 deliveries. They are usually at least 11 times more expensive to deliver. Lots of premature births and lots of extra costs. Insurance companies factor that in.
Are there not rules determining which preemie babies are saved? Or are there not official' cut-off' gestation dates because of the whole American pro life lobby thing?

Sadly- you HAVE to have and stick to only saving babies after a set number of weeks....in the UK and Canada it is 22 weeks. Otherwise costs are astronomical- that is not at all sustainable- in ANY type of healthcare system.
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Old 08-24-2017   #52 (permalink)
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You do realize that the word "average" takes into account all of the exceptions you cited? Try again.
This study covers costs from 2004 till 2010 and was released in 2013. Costs have gone up enormously since then.

http://transform.childbirthconnectio...ng-a-Baby1.pdf
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Old 08-24-2017   #53 (permalink)
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Are there not rules determining which preemie babies are saved? Or are there not official' cut-off' gestation dates because of the whole American pro life lobby thing?

Sadly- you HAVE to have and stick to only saving babies after a set number of weeks....in the UK and Canada it is 22 weeks. Otherwise costs are astronomical- that is not at all sustainable- in ANY type of healthcare system.
Nope. We don't even stop medical care for hopeless situations to merely prolong life for a few weeks for extremely old people in comas. Babies with terminal outcomes and brain damage can be given care indefinitely until they do pass away. If the people want life prolonged at all costs even when the outcome is known then life is prolonged. Common sense does not prevail. We label decisions based on economics and reality as "death panels". 95 year old parents with no brain activity who has been bed ridden for years can be kept alive by machines if the family wants it.
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Old 08-24-2017   #54 (permalink)
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Nope. We don't even stop medical care for hopeless situations to merely prolong life for a few weeks for extremely old people in comas. Babies with terminal outcomes and brain damage can be given care indefinitely until they do pass away. If the people want life prolonged at all costs even when the outcome is known then life is prolonged. Common sense does not prevail. We label decisions based on economics and reality as "death panels". 95 year old parents with no brain activity who has been bed ridden for years can be kept alive by machines if the family wants it.

That is all just ridiculous- and wholly unsustainable. Financially, emotionally, and ethically unsustainable.


You can blame too much religion in your gov't for that, methinks.
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Old 08-24-2017   #55 (permalink)
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well, we have fewer companies, with a lower population...therefore fewer companies in the top 500...this is not hard to figure out why.

and not a big difference between 17% and 19%....it's about priorities, really.

And I addressed this in the other thread- you are incorrect about us being "far more homogenous". Perhaps you are thinking of the situation our countries were in 20 years ago, I am not sure. But today that is not accurate at all.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c867e741a85a



We get 2-3 weeks of mandated vacation per year - that varies by province, in mine you get minimum three paid weeks of vacation, others are two. Then your employer gives you more depending on length of service- like anywhere.

Plus there are more paid stat holidays in Canada- we have ten of those on top of vacation days.

CEO pay is fairly high here but not imo at ridiculous levels. I work for a global company that usually makes over a billion dollar US profit per year- his salary is about 4 million US. I don't personally see that as totally out of line.

Unions- there are less of them all the time but many industries still have them- mining, auto, teaching, nurses, gov't jobs. There is one where I work but of course I am in an exempt job. I'm not a big fan of most unions in general but at the same time, many times the company deserves them....

Our economy is fairly stable bordering on stagnant at the moment. The oil industry is down but that is worse news for Alberta than my province. It's showing signs of recovery though. Typical up and down cycle, it will rebound.
No mandates here on vacation time. One local company and this was a few years ago, gave PTO that was earned while you worked. No accrued PTO for first 90 days. After that, PTO accrued at the rate of .4 days per month for each month worked. PTO could be used for vacation or sick days. So at the end of your first 15 months, you would have accrued 4.8 days if you never took a day off work in that 15 months.

Most places I know start at 1 week. After 3 to 5 years you get 2 weeks. Work 10 to 15 years you might get 3 weeks. Maybe. And that may or may not include sick days.
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Old 08-24-2017   #56 (permalink)
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That is all just ridiculous- and wholly unsustainable. Financially, emotionally, and ethically unsustainable.


You can blame too much religion in your gov't for that, methinks.
Probably what troubles me the most is that many with Christian beliefs cling to life at all costs. And they ignore their belief that Heaven is a far better place for those with hopeless outcomes.

I am a Christian. And if my outcome is hopeless then let me pass naturally and not prolong my life through machines. Let me pass on to Heaven.
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Old 08-24-2017   #57 (permalink)
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Here is a link that says Americans on average get 10 days of vacation per year. And 1 out of 4 jobs offer No Vacation.

https://gusto.com/framework/health-b...-you-stack-up/
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Old 08-24-2017   #58 (permalink)
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well, we have fewer companies, with a lower population...therefore fewer companies in the top 500...this is not hard to figure out why.

and not a big difference between 17% and 19%....it's about priorities, really.

And I addressed this in the other thread- you are incorrect about us being "far more homogenous". Perhaps you are thinking of the situation our countries were in 20 years ago, I am not sure. But today that is not accurate at all.
Wasn't dissing Canada. Was just pointing out the Stormin that his information was flawed. Obviously, when a country has more big companies, there are going to be more high-paid CEOs. The difference in social expenditures, while not huge, still is. He acts as if the US leaves starving kids in the streets. We probably waste more than Canadians do when it comes to government as many of our government workers are union and they are "jobbed up" for life, essentially.
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Old 08-24-2017   #59 (permalink)
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Here is a link that says Americans on average get 10 days of vacation per year. And 1 out of 4 jobs offer No Vacation.

https://gusto.com/framework/health-b...-you-stack-up/
The last twenty years of my work life I got a minimum of 4 weeks, and that quickly grew to over five. Ten days is inhumane.

I changed jobs once during that time, and dropped from over 5 weeks down to 4 weeks. I would not have considered a job that only provided 2 weeks.
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Old 08-24-2017   #60 (permalink)
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The last twenty years of my work life I got a minimum of 4 weeks, and that quickly grew to over five. Ten days is inhumane.

I changed jobs once during that time, and dropped from over 5 weeks down to 4 weeks. I would not have considered a job that only provided 2 weeks.
Salaried workers in white collar jobs do okay or at least better than other workers. Even here. Workers not so well. I live in rural Iowa. A friend of mine lost his job where he had worked for the last 18 years at the age of 61. Got another job at a small manufacturer in our county. He has 1 week of vacation for the coming year. And he works on Saturday at Fareway Grocery part time to make up for his wage shortfall from his previous job. He is a hard worker and a great guy of high morals. Lost his Maintenance Job at a Non-profit for mentally handicapped organization due to probable nepotism. But good luck in proving that. And he is the type of guy to just let it go and not file a lawsuit and just move on.

Last edited by Stormin; 08-24-2017 at 04:03 PM..
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