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Old 06-26-2017   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mnbruce View Post
Your post was false. Don't bother denying it.
Bite me!

This year, organizers said, there will be only one unmarked police car — mandated for safety reasons — at the front of the parade. There will be “limited police participation in the parade itself,” Twin Cities Pride said in a statement. And there will be fewer police officers in uniform compared to last year, when Minneapolis police increased their patrol after a massacre at a gay nightclub in Orlando.

Twin Cities Pride parade officials discuss reversing ban on police marching - StarTribune.com
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Old 06-26-2017   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LilG View Post
Bite me! [/url]
Bite yourself

Bruce was correct about your post.
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Old 06-26-2017   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LilG View Post
Bite me!

This year, organizers said, there will be only one unmarked police car — mandated for safety reasons — at the front of the parade. There will be “limited police participation in the parade itself,” Twin Cities Pride said in a statement. And there will be fewer police officers in uniform compared to last year, when Minneapolis police increased their patrol after a massacre at a gay nightclub in Orlando.

Twin Cities Pride parade officials discuss reversing ban on police marching - StarTribune.com
Your original post was bullshit. Move on.
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Old 06-26-2017   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Babaloo View Post
Some creative editing you did there with the actual transcript.
Nice job conveying how we know you really feel.
I wasn't working from an 'actual transcript' - I wrote the general gist [tautology alert!!] of what I remembered him saying, and noted that was the case by relating it to you as 'roughly this' - if there's something you think I left out (or added), please put it in (or out).

I don't mean like your correction of 'don't' by putting a 'q' in it, so it came out 'donq't', whatever that is (sounds like the negative of the French word 'donc' [so, thus, therefore]...by which you meant? 'Donq't [so, thus, therefore] pull it out, then,' sounds exactly like what he (and I) didn't say. Donc, un point de confusion pour tu.

Here's how I really feel, so you won't have to resort to guesswork and gratuitous sleights: any case like this deserves an impartial and dispassionate analysis of the evidence, which - apart from the emotionally-flawed inflammatory sensationalist news media coverage of any such event ("SC black man shot for running from broken tailight fixit ticket", and "Cincy black man stopped and shot for not having a front license plate"), and other such pandering nutball headlines - in this case exists only in the video referred to. Here it is:



There is no room in an objective analysis of this tape for half-baked ideas and comments about blacks being stopped for DWB, no matter how true or false that might be - it's entirely irrelevant to the evidence on the tape, unless, of course, you think blacks with non-functioning brake lights are pulled over at a greater frequency than other groups (and of course the Irish not at all, because they're all cops), and Hispanic cops are out to shoot them for it.

As proof, some people point to his 52 prior stops for other non-functioning equipment issues, smoking weed while driving (DUI), and other 'minor' infractions that are against the law (because they're unsafe, cause accidents, and kill people), but without any effort to acknowledge whether or not he actually did have a bunch of brake light, turn signal, license plate lamp, loud muffler, tinted windows, loud paint, loud kids without car seats or seat belts infractions, and was just inordinately careless and shouldn't have been been driving at all, and so on up to 52 previous times, or whether the cops just made it up (as can happen), a total of 53 times - hence, he must have been shot for being black.

Based on your comments, you seem to think I created a transcript of this encounter, and 'creatively edited' it to say something not heard on the video. I didn't, as the video demonstrates, and my caveat '[he said] roughly this' still seems appropriate to me. if you think otherwise, just point it out. Thanks for your input.
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Last edited by beam-eye; 06-26-2017 at 01:57 PM..
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Old 06-26-2017   #35 (permalink)
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So at first the Pride parade organizers didn't want the cops to take part in the parade as a protest to the verdict in this case. Then they decided the cops could be in it, but the couldn't be in uniform or marked police cars. So get the irony there. The gay and lesbian community organizes a parade to celebrate their pride at being LGBTQURST, but they want the cops to 'stay in the closet' so to speak and not dress in uniform.
Look what I found in my camera. Who would have thought?

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Old 06-26-2017   #36 (permalink)
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Nice of you to post the photo of the Brasilian churrascaria

We have a couple here in Merida, but I am no longer in an eat until you can't stage of life. They usually have a great mesa fria, though - cold food bar.
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Old 06-26-2017   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by beam-eye View Post

Cop: I stopped you because your brake lights aren't working.
PC: I have to tell you I have a firearm.
Cop: OK, well don't pull it out, then .....don't pull it out!!, don't pull it out!!! (cop reaches in to grab his hand, wrestles for a moment then backs off and shoots him several times, as he was trained to do when it appears he's continuing to pull something out of his pants pocket despite being specifically and repeatedly told not to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beam-eye View Post
Based on your comments, you seem to think I created a transcript of this encounter, and 'creatively edited' it to say something not heard on the video. I didn't, as the video demonstrates, and my caveat '[he said] roughly this' still seems appropriate to me. if you think otherwise, just point it out. Thanks for your input.


As it actually happened.

Yanez approached the driver's side of Castile's vehicle. As he walked toward the vehicle, Yanez had his right hand on the right side of his duty belt near his gun. Castile was buckled in his seatbelt.

Yanez leaned down with his head near to and in front of the driver's side window, exchanged greetings with Castile, and informed Castile of a brake light problem. Officer Joseph Kauser, Yanez's partner, approached on the sidewalk on the passenger side of Castile's vehicle, and stopped near the rear seat passenger door. Yanez asked for Castile's driver's license and proof of insurance.

Castile provided Yanez with his proof of insurance card. Yanez appeared to look at Castile's insurance information and then tucked the card in his outer pocket. Kauser stood next to the car on the passenger side.

Castile calmly informed Yanez: “Sir, I have to tell you that I do have a firearm on me.” Before Castile completed the sentence, Yanez interrupted and calmly replied, “OK,” and placed his right hand on the holster of his own holstered weapon.

Yanez said, “Okay, don't reach for it, then.” Castile responded, “I'm not pulling it out,” and Reynolds also said, “He's not pulling it out.” Yanez screamed, “Don't pull it out!”

Yanez quickly pulled his own gun with his right hand while he reached inside the driver's window with his left hand.

Yanez removed his left arm from the car and fired seven shots in the direction of Castile in rapid succession.

Reynolds yelled, “You just killed my boyfriend!”

Castile moaned and said, “I wasn't reaching for it."

Reynolds loudly said, “He wasn't reaching for it.” Before she completed her sentence, Yanez again screamed, “Don't pull it out!” Reynolds responded, “He wasn't.” Yanez yelled, “Don't move! ****!”


The bold is what you missed.
Was there wrestling as you say?
I suppose being shot five times could be considered "several" by some.

Last edited by Babaloo; 06-26-2017 at 03:42 PM..
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Old 06-26-2017   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by roni View Post
Nice of you to post the photo of the Brasilian churrascaria

We have a couple here in Merida, but I am no longer in an eat until you can't stage of life. They usually have a great mesa fria, though - cold food bar.
It is an awesome restaurant.
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Old 06-26-2017   #39 (permalink)
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It is an awesome restaurant.
The name, translated literally means fire of the floor.
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Old 06-26-2017   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Babaloo View Post
As it actually happened.

Yanez approached the driver's side of Castile's vehicle. As he walked toward the vehicle, Yanez had his right hand on the right side of his duty belt near his gun. Castile was buckled in his seatbelt.

Yanez leaned down with his head near to and in front of the driver's side window, exchanged greetings with Castile, and informed Castile of a brake light problem. Officer Joseph Kauser, Yanez's partner, approached on the sidewalk on the passenger side of Castile's vehicle, and stopped near the rear seat passenger door. Yanez asked for Castile's driver's license and proof of insurance.

Castile provided Yanez with his proof of insurance card. Yanez appeared to look at Castile's insurance information and then tucked the card in his outer pocket. Kauser stood next to the car on the passenger side.

Castile calmly informed Yanez: “Sir, I have to tell you that I do have a firearm on me.” Before Castile completed the sentence, Yanez interrupted and calmly replied, “OK,” and placed his right hand on the holster of his own holstered weapon.

Yanez said, “Okay, don't reach for it, then.” Castile responded, “I'm not pulling it out,” and Reynolds also said, “He's not pulling it out.” Yanez screamed, “Don't pull it out!”

Yanez quickly pulled his own gun with his right hand while he reached inside the driver's window with his left hand.

Yanez removed his left arm from the car and fired seven shots in the direction of Castile in rapid succession.

Reynolds yelled, “You just killed my boyfriend!”

Castile moaned and said, “I wasn't reaching for it."

Reynolds loudly said, “He wasn't reaching for it.” Before she completed her sentence, Yanez again screamed, “Don't pull it out!” Reynolds responded, “He wasn't.” Yanez yelled, “Don't move! ****!”


The bold is what you missed.
Was there wrestling as you say?
I suppose being shot five times could be considered "several" by some.
Maybe the cop should have been honest from the start, and told Philando that he was stopped because he was black.
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Old 06-26-2017   #41 (permalink)
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The whole gay pride march is a bit off topic but it is PI, so for what it is worth

http://www.twincities.com/2017/06/23...ers-can-march/

One could easily see why Lil G might have thought what he posted was accurate because it is almost exactly what was posted in the Twin City newspapers. If it is "fake news", you ought to take that up with your hometown newspapers.

It is the problem with "identity politics." Same kind of thing happened at the Dykes March, when gay Jews were asked to leave because their rainbow colored flag of Israel was deemed to make the gay Palestinians uncomfortable. Other countries flags were flown but, apparently, the only problematic ones were the US and Israel. So, if you have to throw a couple of "your own" under the bus in order to prove your progressive credentials (BLM, Palestine (whatever that is suppose to be); pro-choice, etc), so be it.
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Old 06-26-2017   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Babaloo View Post
As it actually happened.

Yanez approached the driver's side of Castile's vehicle. As he walked toward the vehicle, Yanez had his right hand on the right side of his duty belt near his gun. Castile was buckled in his seatbelt.

Yanez leaned down with his head near to and in front of the driver's side window, exchanged greetings with Castile, and informed Castile of a brake light problem. Officer Joseph Kauser, Yanez's partner, approached on the sidewalk on the passenger side of Castile's vehicle, and stopped near the rear seat passenger door. Yanez asked for Castile's driver's license and proof of insurance.

Castile provided Yanez with his proof of insurance card. Yanez appeared to look at Castile's insurance information and then tucked the card in his outer pocket. Kauser stood next to the car on the passenger side.

Castile calmly informed Yanez: “Sir, I have to tell you that I do have a firearm on me.” Before Castile completed the sentence, Yanez interrupted and calmly replied, “OK,” and placed his right hand on the holster of his own holstered weapon.

Yanez said, “Okay, don't reach for it, then.” Castile responded, “I'm not pulling it out,” and Reynolds also said, “He's not pulling it out.” Yanez screamed, “Don't pull it out!”

Yanez quickly pulled his own gun with his right hand while he reached inside the driver's window with his left hand.

Yanez removed his left arm from the car and fired seven shots in the direction of Castile in rapid succession.

Reynolds yelled, “You just killed my boyfriend!”

Castile moaned and said, “I wasn't reaching for it."

Reynolds loudly said, “He wasn't reaching for it.” Before she completed her sentence, Yanez again screamed, “Don't pull it out!” Reynolds responded, “He wasn't.” Yanez yelled, “Don't move! ****!”


The bold is what you missed.
Was there wrestling as you say?
I suppose being shot five times could be considered "several" by some.
I didn't miss what you bolded - I deliberately ignored it and watched the reaction of the cop. What Castile and Reynold's SAY Castile was doing is not nearly as important - is in fact essentially irrelevant - compared to what Yanez thought he SAW Castile doing, namely continuing to 'pull something out' after specifically and explicitly being told not too.

The officer pulling his gun was a response to his training not to stand-by dumb-struck, mouth agape, and allow himself to get shot when somebody appears to be doing exactly what he has been specifically and explicitly told not to do - and the world is full of such people, who for whatever reason(s) appear to be doing the contrary in the face of dire consequences, which is itself a red flag regarding their comprehension versus their intention, neither of which is explicable in a split-second spur-of-the-moment action where the only clue is unfolding right before your eyes.

You appear to contend that Officer Yanez should have ignored his training and simply stood there dumbstruck, mouth agape, reactions frozen, listening to Castile (and Reynold's, whose input is tangential at best) provide the very distraction he was trained to avoid. That's not a survivable scenario, which is why the training exists in the first place - it's happened too often in the past to simply be chalked up to 'misunderstanding', wilfull or no.

Assuming Castile received standard firearms training, including gun safety (is there such a law in MN?), he would have known the expected basic response was to place his hands on the steering wheel in plain sight and leave them there until the officer tells him what to do next, as Horizon points out. My guess is that Castile did not receive any such training, and instead eagerly sought to comply without thinking-through the way his actions would be interpreted by the officer, who was clearly as surprised that Castile didn't stop 'pulling it out' as Castile was for being shot when he thought he was being cheerfully compliant.

It's the very definition of Tragedy. Locking up the cop for apparently responding in the manner he was trained to do would have been exactly the wrong response and would have solved nothing. If the training is subsequently found to be incorrect, it can be changed to adapt to new and unfolding situations - but I doubt that is the case here.

The social contract is to provide a safe environment for every citizen (so far as reasonably possible) under the protective umbrella of the of law and its enforcement officers whom the society is required to adequately train. That training is based on prior events and how to best handle them when they recur (as they often do). Police officers are not obligated to stand idly-by and get shot, which is why they are trained to respond to foreseeably-threatening situations, as this one was. Yanez was trained for it. Castile, for all his good intentions, was not.

Blaming his death on being black and a victim of police persecution and injustice is exactly the wrong response, and erodes confidence in everybody concerned, including you, who should know better. When it does occur, as it inevitably does, it should be promptly and firmly corrected. But when the facts don't fit, attempting to cram square pegs into round holes is socially counter-productive, as the idiot Trump's 'election' amply demonstrates.

Teaching Castile not to precipitously pull out his wallet in a well-intentioned over-eager display of compliance would likely have saved his life also.

Last edited by beam-eye; 06-26-2017 at 05:13 PM..
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Old 06-26-2017   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by beam-eye View Post
I didn't miss what you bolded - I deliberately ignored it and watched the reaction of the cop. What Castile and Reynold's SAY Castile was doing is not nearly as important - is in fact essentially irrelevant - compared to what Yanez thought he SAW Castile doing, namely continuing to 'pull something out' after specifically and explicitly being told not too.

The officer pulling his gun was a response to his training not to stand-by dumb-struck, mouth agape, and allow himself to get shot when somebody appears to be doing exactly what he has been specifically and explicitly told not to do - and the world is full of such people, who for whatever reason(s) appear to be doing the contrary in the face of dire consequences, which is itself a red flag regarding their comprehension versus their intention, neither of which is explicable in a split-second spur-of-the-moment action where the only clue is unfolding right before your eyes.

You appear to contend that Officer Yanez should have ignored his training and simply stood there dumbstruck, mouth agape, reactions frozen, listening to Castile (and Reynold's, whose input is tangential at best) provide the very distraction he was trained to avoid. That's not a survivable scenario, which is why the training exists in the first place - it's happened too often in the past to simply be chalked up to 'misunderstanding', wilfull or no.

Assuming Castile received standard firearms training, including gun safety (is there such a law in MN?), he would have known the expected basic response was to place his hands on the steering wheel in plain sight and leave them there until the officer tells him what to do next, as Horizon points out. My guess is that Castile did not receive any such training, and instead eagerly sought to comply without thinking-through the way his actions would be interpreted by the officer, who was clearly as surprised that Castile didn't stop 'pulling it out' as Castile was for being shot when he thought he was being cheerfully compliant.

It's the very definition of Tragedy. Locking up the cop for apparently responding in the manner he was trained to do would have been exactly the wrong response and would have solved nothing. If the training is subsequently found to be incorrect, it can be changed to adapt to new and unfolding situations - but I doubt that is the case here.

The social contract is to provide a safe environment for every citizen (so far as reasonably possible) under the protective umbrella of the of law and its enforcement officers whom the society is required to adequately train. That training is based on prior events and how to best handle them when they recur (as they often do). Police officers are not obligated to stand idly-by and get shot, which is why they are trained to respond to foreseeably-threatening situations, as this one was. Yanez was trained for it. Castile, for all his good intentions, was not.

Blaming his death on being black and a victim of police persecution and injustice is exactly the wrong response, and erodes the confidence of everybody concerned. When it does occurs, as it inevitably does, it should be promptly and firmly corrected. But when the facts don't fit, attempting to cram square pegs into round holes is socially counter-productive, as the idiot Trump's 'election' amply demonstrates.

Teaching Castile not to precipitously pull out his wallet in a well-intentioned over-eager display of compliance would likely have saved his life also.
Actually, according to Yanez himself, as he saw Yanez move his hand, his first thoughts went to the dangers of secondhand smoke and how anyone who could be so evil as to spread that to others must be about ready to shoot him with a gun that he had just told the officer he possessed (so much for surprise). The cop's story is BS. He knew he had done wrong and he was grasping.
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Old 06-26-2017   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by beam-eye View Post
I didn't miss what you bolded - I deliberately ignored it and watched the reaction of the cop. What Castile and Reynold's SAY Castile was doing is not nearly as important - is in fact essentially irrelevant - compared to what Yanez thought he SAW Castile doing, namely continuing to 'pull something out' after specifically and explicitly being told not too.

The officer pulling his gun was a response to his training not to stand-by dumb-struck, mouth agape, and allow himself to get shot when somebody appears to be doing exactly what he has been specifically and explicitly told not to do - and the world is full of such people, who for whatever reason(s) appear to be doing the contrary in the face of dire consequences, which is itself a red flag regarding their comprehension versus their intention, neither of which is explicable in a split-second spur-of-the-moment action where the only clue is unfolding right before your eyes.

You appear to contend that Officer Yanez should have ignored his training and simply stood there dumbstruck, mouth agape, reactions frozen, listening to Castile (and Reynold's, whose input is tangential at best) provide the very distraction he was trained to avoid. That's not a survivable scenario, which is why the training exists in the first place - it's happened too often in the past to simply be chalked up to 'misunderstanding', wilfull or no.

Assuming Castile received standard firearms training, including gun safety (is there such a law in MN?), he would have known the expected basic response was to place his hands on the steering wheel in plain sight and leave them there until the officer tells him what to do next, as Horizon points out. My guess is that Castile did not receive any such training, and instead eagerly sought to comply without thinking-through the way his actions would be interpreted by the officer, who was clearly as surprised that Castile didn't stop 'pulling it out' as Castile was for being shot when he thought he was being cheerfully compliant.

It's the very definition of Tragedy. Locking up the cop for apparently responding in the manner he was trained to do would have been exactly the wrong response and would have solved nothing. If the training is subsequently found to be incorrect, it can be changed to adapt to new and unfolding situations - but I doubt that is the case here.

The social contract is to provide a safe environment for every citizen (so far as reasonably possible) under the protective umbrella of the of law and its enforcement officers whom the society is required to adequately train. That training is based on prior events and how to best handle them when they recur (as they often do). Police officers are not obligated to stand idly-by and get shot, which is why they are trained to respond to foreseeably-threatening situations, as this one was. Yanez was trained for it. Castile, for all his good intentions, was not.

Blaming his death on being black and a victim of police persecution and injustice is exactly the wrong response, and erodes confidence in everybody concerned, including you, who should know better. When it does occur, as it inevitably does, it should be promptly and firmly corrected. But when the facts don't fit, attempting to cram square pegs into round holes is socially counter-productive, as the idiot Trump's 'election' amply demonstrates.

Teaching Castile not to precipitously pull out his wallet in a well-intentioned over-eager display of compliance would likely have saved his life also.
Sometimes less is more.
And you did leave it out.
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Old 06-26-2017   #45 (permalink)
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Sometimes less is more.
Very true. Now, could you please help out on the Weather thread?
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