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Old 07-23-2017   #151 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by roni View Post
You used to live near there, didn't you?

We spent a week at a condo near there.
Yes. We lived very close to there.
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Old 07-24-2017   #152 (permalink)
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At what point does this start to concern the "nothing to see here" crowd? For the record, I love Playa. We travel there once a year, sometimes twice, for our tropical vacation. I haven't risen the white flag yet, but sure does seem the murder rate trajectory is certainly heading in the wrong direction.
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Old 07-24-2017   #153 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by knotin1 View Post
At what point does this start to concern the "nothing to see here" crowd? For the record, I love Playa. We travel there once a year, sometimes twice, for our tropical vacation. I haven't risen the white flag yet, but sure does seem the murder rate trajectory is certainly heading in the wrong direction.
I think you're seeing concern by the local expats....for what it is, "concern". For Rick to say "This is getting out of hand" shows what I think is proper concern for some events taking place that no one wants to see happen.

There's a big difference between the proper amount of reflective thought and being "chicken little" and forecasting the impending doom of a place most of us here enjoy...
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Old 07-24-2017   #154 (permalink)
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The "let's wait and see" thingy is not working.
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Old 07-24-2017   #155 (permalink)
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As of right now, I very much doubt that anyone visiting Playa needs to be afraid unless engaging in criminal activities, such as buying drugs.

Here in Guadalajara, there are daily cartel related incidents. However, you can not live your life in fear, I'm still walking my dog all over my neighbourhood. Day as well as night. Still don't feel afraid to move around my area.

I'm still getting married in Playa in November, and I'm not afraid to visit the beautiful city nor to walk along 5th. Although, I would not personally want to open up any kind of business there at the moment. Take that as you may.

Take the following with a pinch of salt, as it's second-hand information.

However, if I've understood it correctly, Cartel Jalisco Nueva Generacion is making a strong move to take over Playa. They also have stated that their mission is to kill as many members of Los Zetas as possible.

A few years back, Playa was in the hands (for the most part) of Zetas, and everything is relatively calm when only one cartel is in control.

However, with recent (within the last few years or so) arrests of high-ranking Zeta members, they are perceived as weak and thus other cartels are moving in to seize territories. This is always bad news, as examples have to be made, and anyone not conforming to the new leadership will have to be removed (killed).

CJNG seems to have adapted quite well to the brutal scare tactics employed by Zetas, and so the violence increases in several states of Mexico. They may not be quite as brutal as Zetas, but a murder is a murder, regardless of what it involves.

Obviously, they are not targeting tourists, and they don't want to scare away the potential buyers of their goods.

But yeah, the cartel related violence in Mexico is definitely out of control. There are several states where I would not go at the current time, but neither Yucatan nor Quintana Roo is on that list.
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Old 07-24-2017   #156 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by knotin1 View Post
At what point does this start to concern the "nothing to see here" crowd? For the record, I love Playa. We travel there once a year, sometimes twice, for our tropical vacation. I haven't risen the white flag yet, but sure does seem the murder rate trajectory is certainly heading in the wrong direction.

I've already explained this, though I can't remember if it was to you or no, so I'll repeat again.


Playa has roughly 200k - 300k people depending on the source estimate. Playa is on pace for about 30 murders this year. That's about 10 - 15 per 100K. This would make Playa the 20th - 35th most dangerous city in the US by murder rate. But let's round it up to 20 per 100k. It's a "high" murder rate my many standards, but still behind a dozen US cities.


Even if the Playa murder rate doubled, it would still be statistically safer than St Louis, Detroit, New Orleans, DC, etc... I would have no safety issue with living in any of those cities, even in the urban core.


It's not a "nothing to see" issue, it's a "get some context and perspective" issue. If 15 - 20 murders per 100K people is where the rate plateaus, then sure, that's higher than I'd like, but I'm not going to freak out like you and some of the others are. If the rate is merely passing by 15 per 100K on it's way to 40 or 60 or higher, then yes, that's a different story.


For the average person, road safety is still by far the biggest safety risk in Playa. Nissan Tsurus are death traps (watch some Youtube crash tests if you like). Collectivos have had some pretty gory mass casualty events. If you're at all freaking out about a murder rate of 20 per 100k, I expect to never see you on any transport in Playa besides daylight ADO buses. (and don't walk anywhere either)


Of course a murder on 5th and other higher profile crimes are worth commenting on and bitching about, but no need to "OMG YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!"
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Old 07-24-2017   #157 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DrewJones View Post
I've already explained this, though I can't remember if it was to you or no, so I'll repeat again.


Playa has roughly 200k - 300k people depending on the source estimate. Playa is on pace for about 30 murders this year. That's about 10 - 15 per 100K. This would make Playa the 20th - 35th most dangerous city in the US by murder rate. But let's round it up to 20 per 100k. It's a "high" murder rate my many standards, but still behind a dozen US cities.


Even if the Playa murder rate doubled, it would still be statistically safer than St Louis, Detroit, New Orleans, DC, etc... I would have no safety issue with living in any of those cities, even in the urban core.


It's not a "nothing to see" issue, it's a "get some context and perspective" issue. If 15 - 20 murders per 100K people is where the rate plateaus, then sure, that's higher than I'd like, but I'm not going to freak out like you and some of the others are. If the rate is merely passing by 15 per 100K on it's way to 40 or 60 or higher, then yes, that's a different story.


For the average person, road safety is still by far the biggest safety risk in Playa. Nissan Tsurus are death traps (watch some Youtube crash tests if you like). Collectivos have had some pretty gory mass casualty events. If you're at all freaking out about a murder rate of 20 per 100k, I expect to never see you on any transport in Playa besides daylight ADO buses. (and don't walk anywhere either)


Of course a murder on 5th and other higher profile crimes are worth commenting on and bitching about, but no need to "OMG YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!"
The vast majority of murders in the aforementioned US cities are drug-related as well. Suburban housewives, week-long business trippers and weekend bar-hoppers generally have a lot more things to worry about than being executed for selling on someone else's "turf."
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Old 07-24-2017   #158 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PlayadelSolDos View Post
The vast majority of murders in the aforementioned US cities are drug-related as well. Suburban housewives, week-long business trippers and weekend bar-hoppers generally have a lot more things to worry about than being executed for selling on someone else's "turf."

You're right, they have to worry about the bartender at their AI spiking their drink with "tainted" alcohol and then sending them to Hospiten to be extorted out of $40,000.
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Old 07-24-2017   #159 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DrewJones View Post
I've already explained this, though I can't remember if it was to you or no, so I'll repeat again.


Playa has roughly 200k - 300k people depending on the source estimate. Playa is on pace for about 30 murders this year. That's about 10 - 15 per 100K. This would make Playa the 20th - 35th most dangerous city in the US by murder rate. But let's round it up to 20 per 100k. It's a "high" murder rate my many standards, but still behind a dozen US cities.


Even if the Playa murder rate doubled, it would still be statistically safer than St Louis, Detroit, New Orleans, DC, etc... I would have no safety issue with living in any of those cities, even in the urban core.


It's not a "nothing to see" issue, it's a "get some context and perspective" issue. If 15 - 20 murders per 100K people is where the rate plateaus, then sure, that's higher than I'd like, but I'm not going to freak out like you and some of the others are. If the rate is merely passing by 15 per 100K on it's way to 40 or 60 or higher, then yes, that's a different story.


For the average person, road safety is still by far the biggest safety risk in Playa. Nissan Tsurus are death traps (watch some Youtube crash tests if you like). Collectivos have had some pretty gory mass casualty events. If you're at all freaking out about a murder rate of 20 per 100k, I expect to never see you on any transport in Playa besides daylight ADO buses. (and don't walk anywhere either)


Of course a murder on 5th and other higher profile crimes are worth commenting on and bitching about, but no need to "OMG YOU'RE GOING TO DIE!"
So, on one hand, you're obviously irritated by people that you feel are blowing things out of proportion. A very valid concern, I will add.

Then, after making a few valid points, you blow things out of proportion yourself.

Can you show me where anyone wrote anything that event remotely comes close to "OMG YOU"RE GOING TO DIE" ?

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
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Old 07-24-2017   #160 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DrewJones View Post
I've already explained this, though I can't remember if it was to you or no, so I'll repeat again.


Playa has roughly 200k - 300k people depending on the source estimate. Playa is on pace for about 30 murders this year. That's about 10 - 15 per 100K. This would make Playa the 20th - 35th most dangerous city in the US by murder rate. But let's round it up to 20 per 100k. It's a "high" murder rate my many standards, but still behind a dozen US cities.
On pace for 30 this year?
We are at 31 right now.
And 200k-300k people? I think that's a super high estimate.
The 2010 census had us at 160k.
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Old 07-24-2017   #161 (permalink)
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Listen up here

I do not live in Playa, I live a bit more than 300 kilometers away. We have vacationed in Playa many times, both before we moved to Mexico and since - starting in 2003. I have no memories of Playa as a small fishing village, but I do remember staying at the beach and Calle 8 for $36 USD a night during the off season.

In September we are going to Isla Mujeres with friends from the USA.

In November we have reservations for 5 nights in Playa, on Calle 14 between 1st and the beach, with a friend who has never been to Mexico before. The deposit was about $300 bucks.

I am considering blowing that off and going to Isla Mujeres or someplace else on the Caribbean side then as well. I am not concerned with my personal safety. I do want us and our friend to have an excellent, low stress vacation. After five nights on the Caribe, we will come back over to our home for a few days and then meet up with 20-25 people on Isla Holbox. We have met in Playa in early December the past few years.

The decision to do Holbox has nothing to do with safety in Playa. We like Holbox (so far), and after announcing our intention to go there a few others decided to go see it and it kind grew from there.

In the meantime we will continue to monitor and adapt accordingly.
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Old 07-24-2017   #162 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Babaloo View Post
On pace for 30 this year?
We are at 31 right now.
And 200k-300k people? I think that's a super high estimate.
The 2010 census had us at 160k.

There currently around 230,000 people in Playa (last estimation of population). That is full time residents, not those moving in an out or taking into account populations in hotel poblados. Ever been to Villas del Sol? If so, the number would make more sense.
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Old 07-24-2017   #163 (permalink)
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On pace for 30 this year?
We are at 31 right now.
And 200k-300k people? I think that's a super high estimate.
The 2010 census had us at 160k.

Articles I saw dated in May had the count in the low teens. Do you think that number was wrong, or do you think there have by 15+ in the past two months?


2010 census at 160K? Sounds like 200k - 300k is about right then, considering the fast growth rate, underreporting of "undocumented workers", and the expat and tourists population.
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Old 07-24-2017   #164 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PlayadelSolDos View Post
There currently around 230,000 people in Playa (last estimation of population). That is full time residents, not those moving in an out or taking into account populations in hotel poblados. Ever been to Villas del Sol? If so, the number would make more sense.
And that number came from where?
The last census stated 160,000.
And yes, our vet is in Villas del Sol.
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Old 07-24-2017   #165 (permalink)
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Articles I saw dated in May had the count in the low teens. Do you think that number was wrong, or do you think there have by 15+ in the past two months?


2010 census at 160K? Sounds like 200k - 300k is about right then, considering the fast growth rate, underreporting of "undocumented workers", and the expat and tourists population.
I don't know.
The number is now 31.
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