Mother Nature is Mad

[Rissask]

According to this site

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sealevel.html

"Sea level continues to rise at a rate of about one-eighth of an inch per year......The two major causes of global sea level rise are thermal expansion caused by warming of the ocean (since water expands as it warms) and increased melting of land-based ice, such as glaciers and ice sheets. The oceans are absorbing more than 90 percent of the increased atmospheric heat associated with emissions from human activity. "

but...important factors also are:

"Sea level rise at specific locations may be more or less than the global average due to local factors such as land subsidence from natural processes and withdrawal of groundwater and fossil fuels, changes in regional ocean currents, and whether the land is still rebounding from the compressive weight of Ice Age glaciers. In urban settings, rising seas threaten infrastructure necessary for local jobs and regional industries. Roads, bridges, subways, water supplies, oil and gas wells, power plants, sewage treatment plants, landfills—virtually all human infrastructure—is at risk from sea level rise."

according to National Geographic:

Most predictions say the warming of the planet will continue and is likely to accelerate. Oceans will likely continue to rise as well, but predicting the degree to which they will rise is an inexact science. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says we can expect the oceans to rise between 11 and 38 inches (28 to 98 centimeters) by 2100, enough to swamp many of the cities along the U.S. East Coast. More dire estimates, including a complete meltdown of the Greenland ice sheet, place sea level rise to 23 feet (7 meters), enough to submerge London.

Hmmm. By 2100? Sounds a bit extreme and far-fetched to me. But I am far from a climate scientist. Same as all the people who will comment after me, let's not forget.

I think if I lived or had property near an ocean or in an area that could possibly get flooding due to storm surge, I'd sell up and move. But I tend to not take chances when it comes to money.

[Rissask]

And this is an interesting article....how the quake in Puebla/DF likely triggered Popocatépetl volcano to erupt soon after.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevorn.../#75f92ea11b02

The topic is still debated among scientists, but there is enough evidence that earthquakes can and do trigger volcanic eruptions. In 1960, the volcano Cordon Caulle in the Andes began erupting just 2 days after a M 9.6 earthquake struck Chile.

In between eruptions, volcanoes fill their magma chambers with magma as they "prepare" for the next eruption. The exact timing of an eruption is hard to predict as one must accurately determine the timing at which the overlying pressure of the volcano equals the underlying pressure exerted by a filled magma chamber. If a volcano is close to erupting, an earthquake could shake the volcano enough to create fractures or conduits through which the magma can begin erupting. This is why we've seen several times major earthquakes in volcanic regions trigger volcanic eruptions.

[PlayadelSolDos]

OK, so try to square these two stories and ask yourself why some remain skeptical.


Higher seas to flood dozens of US cities, study says - CNN


https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/17/n...s.html?mcubz=0

Time Warner owns CNN.

[Rissask]

You lost me. Perhaps not surprisingly, as I tend to be slow at times.

So Time Warner owns CNN and Time Warner is moving offices to the West Side of NYC. CNN printed an article based on these findings.

So are you saying that it seems odd if the Time Warner people believe this story that they would invest any money in any property on an island that might be underwater in fifty years? And therefore you think that means the story is a conspiracy? Or what?

[PlayadelSolDos]

Originally Posted by Rissask

You lost me. Perhaps not surprisingly, as I tend to be slow at times.

So Time Warner owns CNN and Time Warner is moving offices to the West Side of NYC. CNN printed an article based on these findings.

So are you saying that it seems odd if the Time Warner people believe this story that they would invest any money in any property on an island that might be underwater in fifty years? And therefore you think that means the story is a conspiracy? Or what?

Conspiracy? No.

I just find it odd that a company that is pushing (and if you ever watch CNN, you know what I mean) the narratives of global warming and cities underwater would invest $1.3 billion US in a piece of real estate that would be one of the first to be submerged in such a scenario. It makes no sense if they are true believers. Which means maybe they aren't but fear sells. I don't know. I am careful with my money too and if I truly believed a piece of property would be underwater in X years, I sure as hell wouldn't buy it, let alone drop over a billion dollars on it.

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSolDos

Conspiracy? No.

I just find it odd that a company that is pushing (and if you ever watch CNN, you know what I mean) the narratives of global warming and cities underwater would invest $1.3 billion US in a piece of real estate that would be one of the first to be submerged in such a scenario. It makes no sense if they are true believers. Which means maybe they aren't but fear sells. I don't know. I am careful with my money too and if I truly believed a piece of property would be underwater in X years, I sure as hell wouldn't buy it, let alone drop over a billion dollars on it.

I would guess it's as simple as the higher-up powers that be at Time Warner are not believers in it ever happening, sprinkled with a healthy dose of denial.

Denial, after all, is found in all of us - whether we keep on drinking heavily or smoking while knowing full well it could kill us, or keep spending without saving for a rainy day, or keep eating cheeseburgers and chips and chocolate knowing we are heading full force to a cardiac event.

I think there are a whole big segment of the population too who think that even if the projections do turn out to be accurate, somehow either god or science are going to miraculously prevent it from happening, or discover how to turn the effects around.

how many people even on this forum live in one of the 100+ cities and DO believe in the science, yet wouldn't dream of moving?

[TAPPY]

Originally Posted by Rissask

I would guess it's as simple as the higher-up powers that be at Time Warner are not believers in it ever happening, sprinkled with a healthy dose of denial.

Denial, after all, is found in all of us - whether we keep on drinking heavily or smoking while knowing full well it could kill us, or keep spending without saving for a rainy day, or keep eating cheeseburgers and chips and chocolate knowing we are heading full force to a cardiac event.

I think there are a whole big segment of the population too who think that even if the projections do turn out to be accurate, somehow either god or science are going to miraculously prevent it from happening, or discover how to turn the effects around.

how many people even on this forum live in one of the 100+ cities and DO believe in the science, yet wouldn't dream of moving?

and to add...just because an area has never flooded before - does not mean in 100+ years it wont (over building with out proper drainage).

Something many people found out this year.


And yes - always a gamble if you live on or near the coast. I kinda think every area has some sort of issue to deal with (fires, earthquakes, tornados, blizzards)

[PlayadelSolDos]

Originally Posted by Rissask

I would guess it's as simple as the higher-up powers that be at Time Warner are not believers in it ever happening, sprinkled with a healthy dose of denial.

Denial, after all, is found in all of us - whether we keep on drinking heavily or smoking while knowing full well it could kill us, or keep spending without saving for a rainy day, or keep eating cheeseburgers and chips and chocolate knowing we are heading full force to a cardiac event.

I think there are a whole big segment of the population too who think that even if the projections do turn out to be accurate, somehow either god or science are going to miraculously prevent it from happening, or discover how to turn the effects around.

how many people even on this forum live in one of the 100+ cities and DO believe in the science, yet wouldn't dream of moving?

No, I think it is more that they believe in climate change and are expecting it to change again in the next 50 years. Climate has always changed, so you are always taking a risk buying waterfront property. It could get flooded or the water could recede and you could be inland.

A newspaper (I think it was The Independent) recently ran an op-ed on how the best way to help the Earth was by not having children. A couple of pages later, it ran an article about how Greece was doomed to economic collapse if her citizens didn't start procreating right quickly because they weren't going to have enough working tax payers to pay for their elderly population in 15-20 years.

[Rissask]

Originally Posted by TAPPY

and to add...just because an area has never flooded before - does not mean in 100+ years it wont (over building with out proper drainage).

Something many people found out this year.


And yes - always a gamble if you live on or near the coast. I kinda think every area has some sort of issue to deal with (fires, earthquakes, tornados, blizzards)

True- and let's not forget cold. If something disastrous happens and my electricity goes out and my furnace doesn't work in the dead of winter, how long before I am a popsicle if I stay put? I have no fireplace, no generator.

Originally Posted by PlayadelSolDos

No, I think it is more that they believe in climate change and are expecting it to change again in the next 50 years. Climate has always changed, so you are always taking a risk buying waterfront property. It could get flooded or the water could recede and you could be inland.

A newspaper (I think it was The Independent) recently ran an op-ed on how the best way to help the Earth was by not having children. A couple of pages later, it ran an article about how Greece was doomed to economic collapse if her citizens didn't start procreating right quickly because they weren't going to have enough working tax payers to pay for their elderly population in 15-20 years.

"no"?
I think that also might be another reason, sure. But I still think mine were also possibilities.

And your second paragraph-those are an apple and an orange.

One is a statement about the environment and one is a statement about the economy. They are both correct. There are many countries like Greece, Canada would be one of we didn't let in so many immigrants.

[Rissask]

also....about what you said here:

I think it is more that they believe in climate change and are expecting it to change again in the next 50 years. Climate has always changed, so you are always taking a risk buying waterfront property. It could get flooded or the water could recede and you could be inland.

I think anything is possible when it comes to the climate in the future. There is much we simply don't know- and no one can say what definitely is going to happen- there could be factors we know nothing about at this point, or things could change that would have an effect that no one predicted.

But, in general I believe that science does definitely point to a warming earth in the next few hundred years and I do think it's VERY likely that sea levels will continue to rise- just not as fast as the scenarios in that article. By the way, look at the details of that group 'Union of Concerned Scientists'. Something seems off to me about that.

[steve balt]

Anyone heard anything about Punta Cana? Headed there late October for a big Poker tourney .

[kenneth121]

Originally Posted by PlayadelSolDos

Conspiracy? No.

I just find it odd that a company that is pushing (and if you ever watch CNN, you know what I mean) the narratives of global warming and cities underwater would invest $1.3 billion US in a piece of real estate that would be one of the first to be submerged in such a scenario. It makes no sense if they are true believers. Which means maybe they aren't but fear sells. I don't know. I am careful with my money too and if I truly believed a piece of property would be underwater in X years, I sure as hell wouldn't buy it, let alone drop over a billion dollars on it.

You believe that CNN is pushing an agenda they don't really believe, presumably at the instance of their parent company, but that isn't a conspiracy? My crazy brother in law who believes, among other things that the crown jewels in the Tower of London are copies and the real ones were sold to Dubai years ago, is coming to visit this weekend. He is always coming up with arguments to prove his conspiracy theories but in fact they are never logical arguments. They are usually a series of unconnected facts that only make sense if you begin with the assumption that the conspiracy theory is true.

With all due respect this sounds like what you have done here. The fact that CNN runs stories about the findings of scientists who believe in climate change does not prove they are pushing an agenda. The best you could say is that it is consistent with that idea but it is equally consistent with CNN simply viewing these findings as newsworthy and not wanting to censor them. You are filling in the gaps in the evidence with an assumption.

Then you suggest that absent a conspiracy to push a false agenda all of the business decisions of a massive media company like Time Warner would necessarily be completely consistent with the editorial policy of all of their subsidiaries. In fact there is nothing to indicate that Time Warner took what CNN publishes or says about climate change into account at all when deciding where to move their head office and no reason to assume that they did. The article doesn't specify but suggests that Time Warner will be leasing space from some entity called Related Companies. If that is the case since they are able to negotiate the terms of the lease and it would certainly include a force majeure clause then there is no reason to think flooding would even be a concern of theirs. The only reason you think that Time Warner must have discussed the possibility of flooding and rejected it because "we know that is bullshit anyway don't we boys ha ha ha" is because you began with the assumption that they would do that.

[steve balt]

My realtor in the Florida Keys just sent me these links when I asked how things were going.

Sounds like a lot of progress being made.But a few Keys hit very hard.

Marathon, was my first choice and it was hit the hardest . Glad I didn't pull the trigger on that deal.

Anyway here is her update ...

Hi Steve and thanks so much for your reply!

We are alive and well in the Florida Keys after Hurricane Irma. Key Largo, Islamorada and Key West are pretty much back to normal. All utilities have been restored and restaurants, hotels, gas stations, grocery stores and school are all open.
Marathon and the Lower Keys took quite a hit and is pretty bad in some spots. The first priority is finding housing for so many displaced locals. A lot of homes recently built to the strongest codes in the country did very well. Even the older “Conch” homes held up remarkable well to Irma’s 150mph winds. Mobile homes did not fare so well. All residents have been allowed home and the recovery response from all over the country just is absolutely amazing!

Our paradise is not quite as beautiful as it once was but the leaves on the trees have already started to sprout out. Dive boats have been out on the reef for exploration purposes and plan on running trips starting Monday. Fishing charters are also starting up.

The saying down here now is “you cannot drown a Conch” and we are Keys strong!!! Please feel free to send any questions you like about our progress. In the meantime, these links will provide a bit more information.
Long live the Conch Republic!

Keys Recovery – Monroe County Emergency Management
Keys Officials Hoping To Have Tourists Returning In Droves Fairly Soon « CBS Miami
https://keywest.floridaweekly.com/ar...survived-irma/