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Old 10-16-2017   #1 (permalink)
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Sexual Harassment and Assault

Maybe this can be non-political, but given the usual suspects, I doubt it

Here is something I think:

Parents have a big responsibility in the issues of gender based harassment and sexual assault.

It is a start to teach boys that no means no, but it is not enough. It is a start to teach girls not to take shit, but it is not enough.

I am unsure what enough is, but I am sure some of you parents out there have ideas to share.
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Old 10-16-2017   #2 (permalink)
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Hard to comment on this without someone finding politics in it.

My wife and I teach our boys that there are differences between men and women. They understand a lot of those things already, obviously. We teach them that all people are to be respected and that sex is an expression of love. It is not a recreational activity or a game or a means to an end. And it is definitely not a weapon. When there is love, there will be consent. Without love, there may be consent but it can come and go and be withdrawn at any point. Not something you want to take a chance on so better to keep it in your pants until you are in a responsible and loving relationship. Treat all women as you would your mom. If your actions would make your mom upset, then your actions are likely wrong.
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Old 10-17-2017   #3 (permalink)
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My 37 year old daughter was here last night for dinner and we were talking about this very thing.
IMO, her generation is the one we (parents) starting screwing up on. All the "I'm ok, you're ok", "let's be pals", and sex drugs and rock and roll of the 60's that we lived through was passed on to the kids of that generation by some parents. I don't think it served them well, and was the start of what has turned into the entitlement generation - the inability to take "NO" for an answer, which I do think factors into the sexual assault/harrassment issues of today.

Should women, hypothetically, be able to dress however they want whenever they want without fear of harrassment or assault? In theory, YES. Of course. In reality? It's just not the case. Men are instinctually attracted by sex appeal, and what it's about is teaching/learning to control impulse. Add alcohol and drug use to the equation, like in college, and you're compromising your ability to make any good decision despite what you've been taught.....

I don't know the answers either. I'm thankful that my girls were able to navigate their ways through high school, college, and into careers without having fallen prey. And yes, some of that was because they were taught not to take shit, like Roni said.

The oldest, last night, said..."I was bullied EVERY DAY in high school. I'm short, I'm quirky, I wasn't "in" with the in crowd. I was ridiculed every day for something or other. AND SO?????"

Aside from teaching our kids proper behavior, let's teach them to cope with others' improper acts, instead of bailing them out of every situation....
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Old 10-17-2017   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roni View Post
Maybe this can be non-political, but given the usual suspects, I doubt it

Here is something I think:

Parents have a big responsibility in the issues of gender based harassment and sexual assault.

It is a start to teach boys that no means no, but it is not enough. It is a start to teach girls not to take shit, but it is not enough.

I am unsure what enough is, but I am sure some of you parents out there have ideas to share.

Agree- and teach your daughters (and sons) to not take it and what to do about it and what to say when it does happen (because it does)

This is a big part of what my career is (and it is not just men who do this - and it is not all sexual in nature either)

Bottom line, its has been done to me and people I love. Some of it is old school culture - some of it perverted and some of it just mental and some quid pro quo. I never had to file a complaint - I was always able to fight back - some are not sure how to do this and are afraid of losing their job - I get this !

And some people use it to their advantage only to cry about it later on when it does not work out in their favor (sorry it is true) AND there have been false accusations as well.

I tell teach my kiddo how to be smart when confronted with this.

Bottom line - it happens. I am sure it has been going on in the entertainment industry for a long time.
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Old 10-17-2017   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debbiec View Post

Should women, hypothetically, be able to dress however they want whenever they want without fear of harrassment or assault? In theory, YES. Of course. In reality? It's just not the case. Men are instinctually attracted by sex appeal, and what it's about is teaching/learning to control impulseothers' improper acts, instead of bailing them out of every situation....
And women need to understand - you don't dress for work like you are going to a cocktail party. I put on a seminar for a local group and one of the topics is dressing for success and dressing for the job you want. I hate to sound like a prude - because I am not - but please don't dress like a hooker when you come to work.
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Old 10-17-2017   #6 (permalink)
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Old 10-17-2017   #7 (permalink)
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What year is this?
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Old 10-17-2017   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debbiec View Post
Should women, hypothetically, be able to dress however they want whenever they want without fear of harrassment or assault? In theory, YES. Of course. In reality? It's just not the case. Men are instinctually attracted by sex appeal, and what it's about is teaching/learning to control impulse. Add alcohol and drug use to the equation, like in college, and you're compromising your ability to make any good decision despite what you've been taught.....

Aside from teaching our kids proper behavior, let's teach them to cope with others' improper acts, instead of bailing them out of every situation....
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Originally Posted by TAPPY View Post
And women need to understand - you don't dress for work like you are going to a cocktail party. I put on a seminar for a local group and one of the topics is dressing for success and dressing for the job you want. I hate to sound like a prude - because I am not - but please don't dress like a hooker when you come to work.
I agree, even though maybe it shouldn't be, but men instinctually react to women dressed provocatively. So I feel like if you don't want that kind of attention then don't put that out there. I think there is responsibility on both sides.

I work in an office setting, and some of the sights I see are like ....honey are you coming to work or going to the club??!
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Old 10-17-2017   #9 (permalink)
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What you tell your children is one thing but what you do in front of them is more important. My father was an often ill-tempered man who took his frustrations out with verbal assaults on everyone who annoyed him including his children. Well everyone but one person actually who was my mother. He never once verbally or physically abused my mother. He was never even disrespectful towards her in front of me or my siblings and woe unto us if we dared to disrespect her. He may have been disrespectful during private arguments but they never argued in front of us. He never told me that I had to respect women but he certainly taught me that.

Well I can understand that some kinds of attire are inappropriate for a work environment I don't think this is a cause of sexual harassment. Harassment is about abuse of power not just about sexual attraction and it has been going on long before the "dirty hippies" of the 1960s. The first major sex abuse scandal in Hollywood that I am aware of involved silent film star Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle way back in 1921. I am pretty sure Harvey Weinstein did not choose his victims solely on the basis of attraction but mostly on the basis of how powerless they were against him.
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Old 10-17-2017   #10 (permalink)
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Like I said - I am not a prude - there is some clothing that is not acceptable for a corporate professional office. And this goes for men who walk around grabbing them self and readjusting (we don't want to see that) and forgetting to zip !



Everyone deserves respect - just dress office professional is all I ask. It doesn't take a genius or a prude to figure that out. Certain offices have certain cultures....dress the part. Perception !

If I can see your thong your dress is to tight or sheer !
If I see your booty cheeks when you bend over - to short.
Are 6 inch heel see thru heals a good idea ?
If your blouse is sheer - cami's are your friend.
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Old 10-17-2017   #11 (permalink)
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We should be telling men how to behave, not women how to dress.
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Old 10-17-2017   #12 (permalink)
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We should be telling men how to behave, not women how to dress.
No. But they ask for it
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Old 10-17-2017   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
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We should be telling men how to behave, not women how to dress.
I think parents should teach their children how to act respectfully and also encourage them to dress appropriately for all occasions and places. Both genders.

I don't think it's victim shaming or blaming to point out if you dress a certain way you are going to attract negative attention. It's just reality. People judge on appearances and behaviour. And people will treat others based on their perception of what kind of person they believe you to be based on those judgements.

Might not be fair but not everything in life is.
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Old 10-17-2017   #14 (permalink)
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No. But they ask for it

I don't think anyone here thinks that.

If you have a daughter and she was heading out dressed fairly provocatively to a frat party -what would you tell her? What advice would you give her? About drinking, what she should do or not do, etc?
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Old 10-17-2017   #15 (permalink)
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The responsibility for reprehensible behavior is all on the abuser or harrasser.
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