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Old 01-11-2018   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by beerbreath View Post
So all the crap we have put into the air has no effect on the planet?
who said that? Comprehension, dude. Try to improve it.

I am sure it does have an effect. And certainly we should be doing a lot to try to mitigate our polluting and rapid population growth and consuming of resources- if we want our species to last longer here, anyway.

But part of the point is, climate would be changing with or without our contributions. Mankind has a very inflated sense of importance in general- not only do we think we have this HUGE effect on the planet (which will be here long after we die out) -we also are arrogant enough to think we are smart enough to have a big impact on things like climate, which are largely way beyond our measly control.
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Old 01-11-2018   #62 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rissask View Post
who said that? Comprehension, dude. Try to improve it.

I am sure it does have an effect. And certainly we should be doing a lot to try to mitigate our polluting and rapid population growth and consuming of resources- if we want our species to last longer here, anyway.

But part of the point is, climate would be changing with or without our contributions. Mankind has a very inflated sense of importance in general- not only do we think we have this HUGE effect on the planet (which will be here long after we die out) -we also are arrogant enough to think we are smart enough to have a big impact on things like climate, which are largely way beyond our measly control.
Of course we have a big impact!
And yes the planet will always be here,but will we?
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Old 01-11-2018   #63 (permalink)
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Of course we have a big impact!
And yes the planet will always be here,but will we?
I will not be there. I am 66 and hope for another good decade
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Old 01-11-2018   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rissask View Post
who said that? Comprehension, dude. Try to improve it.

I am sure it does have an effect. And certainly we should be doing a lot to try to mitigate our polluting and rapid population growth and consuming of resources- if we want our species to last longer here, anyway.

But part of the point is, climate would be changing with or without our contributions. Mankind has a very inflated sense of importance in general- not only do we think we have this HUGE effect on the planet (which will be here long after we die out) -we also are arrogant enough to think we are smart enough to have a big impact on things like climate, which are largely way beyond our measly control.
I remember an "expert" saying after Hurricane Andrew that we needed to work on replenishing the Everglades because of the amount of salt water that washed in. As if this was the first hurricane to ever have had an impact on them. I mean as old as the Earth is and the number of storms that we don't even know about.....
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Old 01-11-2018   #65 (permalink)
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What, you think NASA can't figure things out to two decimal points.
Obtaining a value is not the issue, it is the meaningfulness of the obtained value. If NASA calculated the temperature change from 1980 to 2018 to 6 decimal places would that give you more or less confidence in their observations? A thinking person would realize it for the BS that it is, knowing full well that calculating earthly temperature deltas to the millionth of a degree is ludicrous. With the measuring tools available and the historical record complied as it was, plus other natural variations in temperature caused by a whole host of reasons, identifying temperature changes to hundredths of a degree is just as nonsensical.
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Old 01-11-2018   #66 (permalink)
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Do you agree that over the past 200 years there has been a huge increase in extreme weather events in the US northeast, and that the rate of increase seems to be increasing as well?
Compared to what/when? What was the frequency of "extreme" weather like 5,000 years ago, or 20,000 years ago (when NYC was under a sheet of ice a mile thick?), or a million years ago?
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Why do you want me to prefer the explanation that this is due to random fluctuation and not due to the simultaneous increase in surface temperature by nearly 4 degrees (again measured in locations with a history of accurate measurements)?
I didn't posit any reason for changes that you claim have taken place, it is clear what you believe. The only problem is you have no evidence to support your claim.
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Old 01-11-2018   #67 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by beerbreath View Post
So all the crap we have put into the air has no effect on the planet?
All the more reason for you to keep your mouth closed.
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Old 01-11-2018   #68 (permalink)
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Compared to what/when? What was the frequency of "extreme" weather like 5,000 years ago, or 20,000 years ago (when NYC was under a sheet of ice a mile thick?), or a million years ago?


I didn't posit any reason for changes that you claim have taken place, it is clear what you believe. The only problem is you have no evidence to support your claim.
How can a tinfoil hat exert so much pressure on your frontal lobe, is what I'd like to know.
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Old 01-11-2018   #69 (permalink)
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How can a tinfoil hat exert so much pressure on your frontal lobe, is what I'd like to know.
Brilliant response, and all too typical when one has no sensible rebuttal.
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Old 01-11-2018   #70 (permalink)
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See, first he was saying it was a measurement issue.

Then when presented with evidence based on robust measurements he said it didn't really matter if it's a measurement issue since 200 years aren't enough.

If we'd post the famous plot of atmospheric CO2 going back 800,000 years, he would say "sure, but there's no evidence that just by raising CO2 to levels never seen before we're causing this warming"

If such evidence is produced he'd claim that maybe there's going to be an ice age and we should just wait for that...

So I have to guess it's super strong tinfoil at work.
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Old 01-11-2018   #71 (permalink)
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https://skepticalscience.com/97-perc...sus-robust.htm
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Old 01-11-2018   #72 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ProfessorPibil View Post
See, first he was saying it was a measurement issue.

Then when presented with evidence based on robust measurements he said it didn't really matter if it's a measurement issue since 200 years aren't enough.
Absolutely wrong, but not unexpected based upon your history. I took issue with the measurements because that was the topic at the time. You haven't answered how NASA can be accurate to hundredths of a degree based upon the criteria I identified so much for the "robust measurements" argument.
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If we'd post the famous plot of atmospheric CO2 going back 800,000 years, he would say "sure, but there's no evidence that just by raising CO2 to levels never seen before we're causing this warming"
Except, of course, CO2 levels are not at unprecedented levels (I bet even you knew this inconvenient fact but chose to ignore it; how NYT of you). They have been many times higher in the earth's past, so your comment about "levels never seen before" is categorically wrong.
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If such evidence is produced he'd claim that maybe there's going to be an ice age and we should just wait for that...

So I have to guess it's super strong tinfoil at work.
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Old 01-11-2018   #73 (permalink)
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Well, once you say CO2 levels aren't at their highest point during the past 800k+ years, then you switch from somewhat delusional to just a liar and the discussion is over.

None of the data I've provided is from NASA, none of it requires great precision, and none of it is sensitive to measurement errors of the type you seem to believe scientists are unaware of.
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Old 01-11-2018   #74 (permalink)
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Well, once you say CO2 levels aren't at their highest point during the past 800k+ years, then you switch from somewhat delusional to just a liar and the discussion is over.

I didn't say anything about the last 800k years. I addressed your claim that "raising CO2 to levels never seen before" was wrong-you did not put a time limit on this claim, you wrote "never seen before". By the way, how did CO2 levels get so high in previous history without man's interaction? Don't try to answer, it was just a rhetorical question.
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None of the data I've provided is from NASA, none of it requires great precision, and none of it is sensitive to measurement errors of the type you seem to believe scientists are unaware of.
Different topic, if you choose not to address the issue that is fine, but that is what spawned my original response. Do you think claiming temperature changes measured in the hundredths of a degree a legitimate exercise?
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Old 01-11-2018   #75 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ProfessorPibil View Post
See, first he was saying it was a measurement issue.

Then when presented with evidence based on robust measurements he said it didn't really matter if it's a measurement issue since 200 years aren't enough.

If we'd post the famous plot of atmospheric CO2 going back 800,000 years, he would say "sure, but there's no evidence that just by raising CO2 to levels never seen before we're causing this warming"

If such evidence is produced he'd claim that maybe there's going to be an ice age and we should just wait for that...

So I have to guess it's super strong tinfoil at work.

Herein is a large portion of the problem: your 'robust measurements' is based on such a minute timeline, it's downright laughable. First, how old do you suspect the earth is? Please answer this. Second, do you feel one could provide 'robust measurements' that there was no vegetation on the planet if dropped in the middle of the Sahara desert, and told to look in one direction only, peering through a soda straw, for a moment? Based on your logic, the viewer would have 'robust measurements' that there was absolutely no vegetation on the entire planet based on their conclusive evidence. Sound a bit unrealistic and far fetched? NO???

Last edited by Sogno; 01-11-2018 at 12:18 PM..
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