FORUM FUN FEATURE!! Tough Test 6 - Page 2

**denisea** · 08-07-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunKneeMarie

why oil for #4?

My thinking was that both an orange and an octopus are living things as opposed to oil which is not.

**SunKneeMarie** · 08-07-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by denisea

My thinking was that both an orange and an octopus are living things as opposed to oil which is not.

Okay, I'll buy that.

**Bumper** · 08-07-2004

Actually, you all did pretty well. The answers follow:

Tough Test 6 - Answers

1. As the monkey climbs the rope, the weight will rise the same distance.

2. Seven (British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick)

3. Most people tend to say (or at least think) at first that the bottle costs $1 and the cork costs 10¢. But in that case the bottle would only cost 90¢ more than the cork. The right answer is that the bottle costs $1.05 and the cork 5¢, making exactly a $1 difference between the bottle and the cork.

4. Oil. The other two don’t rhyme with any other word in the English language.

5. 8 teams played. If 8 teams took part in the tournament, then the first team played games against the other 7 teams. The second team has already played against the first team, and so only plays games against the other 6 teams. In this manner, the second last team plays against only one additional team, and the last team will have played against all the others. Thus, the total number of games is 7 + 6 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 28 games.

6. Ethiopia

7. Four years ago.

8. Her broomstick.

9. Assuming two wheels for each cycle, 13 cycles would have 26 wheels. But, there are 35 - 26 = 9 extra wheels. As bicycles have 2 wheels, and tricycles have 3 wheels, there is 1 extra wheel per tricycle in the park. Thus, the extra 9 wheels belong to 9 tricycles.

10. A towel.

**SunKneeMarie** · 08-07-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumper

Tough Test 6 - Answers

1. As the monkey climbs the rope, the weight will rise the same distance.

Methinks I am not schooled enough in the way of the pulley. I still can't picture this.

And I'm still giving myself credit for my sponge answer.

Sponge-worthy, I say.

**Jesus** · 08-07-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunKneeMarie

Methinks I am not schooled enough in the way of the pulley. I still can't picture this.

And I'm still giving myself credit for my sponge answer.

Sponge-worthy, I say.

There is no friction on the pulley, as the monkey climbs, the rope moves down past him. Part of the trick (but no the main part) is that there is no friction on the pulley, it won't stop the rope from moving. Change the monkey to another lifeless weight and you will have it, for the system to be in equilibrium both weights (of the same amount, as stated) would be resting at the same height, like in a balance.
In a balance, both "arms" need to have the same length, in this case the segments of rope. If one arm is longer than the other, the balance would not rest horizontally.

Critter · 08-08-2004

My head hurts reading about the monkey, the pulley and the weight.

so what you are saying as the monkey climbs the rope falls down from him pulling the weight up?

My thought is the weight of the money is removed from the equasion as he climbs and the weight falls until the rope is taunt again.

TAPPY · 08-08-2004

huh ?????????

**SunKneeMarie** · 08-08-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critter

My head hurts reading about the monkey, the pulley and the weight.

Oh good! It's not just me!!

**Jesus** · 08-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Critter

so what you are saying as the monkey climbs the rope falls down from him pulling the weight up?

My thought is the weight of the money is removed from the equasion as he climbs and the weight falls until the rope is taunt again.

No, you don't remove the monkey from the equation.
As the monkey "climbs" the system simultanously auto-corrects itseft and the other weight raises. If the monkeys climbs 1 unit, the weight raises 1/2 unit and the monkey falls down the other half, so they remain side to side, but a little higher than original.

**Bumper** · 08-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus

No, you don't remove the monkey from the equation.
As the monkey "climbs" the system simultanously auto-corrects itseft and the other weight raises. If the monkeys climbs 1 unit, the weight raises 1/2 unit and the monkey falls down the other half, so they remain side to side, but a little higher than original.

Well done, Jesus. The definitive answer. I've been deliberately staying out of this on-going discussion to see if anyone would come up with a single, clear explanation that addressed the question. I can't imagine it will be explained any better than that. I think one of the keys is taking note of the statement that the rope is weightless, and the pulley is frictionless, so a lot of the mechanical considerations are ignored. In real life, of course, those conditions couldn't exist, so the problem is strictly a question of theoretical physics.

Critter · 08-09-2004

Right Bump in other words "it ain't gonna happen that way", cause there is no such thing as a weighless rope, you might get a near frictionless pulley, but as the monkey climbs that weight is going to fall. Period End of Story.

Beachwolverine · 08-09-2004

Jesus wrote:

Quote:

There is no friction on the pulley, as the monkey climbs, the rope moves down past him. Part of the trick (but no the main part) is that there is no friction on the pulley, it won't stop the rope from moving. Change the monkey to another lifeless weight and you will have it, for the system to be in equilibrium both weights (of the same amount, as stated) would be resting at the same height, like in a balance.
In a balance, both "arms" need to have the same length, in this case the segments of rope. If one arm is longer than the other, the balance would not rest horizontally.

Although Bumper agrees, I will disagree with your reasoning (I agree with the result). Respectfully of course. I believe you would be right if the rope had weight. BUT since the rope is weighless, monkey and weight do not have to be at the same distance from the pulley to balance.

I say they both raise by the same amount because the force is equal and opposite on both of them AND they both have the same inertia (a subject Bumper knows well -oops sorry - I'm sure I'll pay for that!).

Picture a similar situation but with the monkey and weight on ice (i.e. frictionless) and the pulley horizontal not vertical. This is more real life and easier to see (They do have some ice rinks in land of smog - right?). As the monkey pulls, both the monkey and the weight will move equal amounts toward the pulley.

Agree or disagree?

BW

**sctx** · 08-09-2004

The answer is "B" for all of the questions :p

Nerak936 · 08-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumper

Tough Test 6

4. Of the three words orange, octopus, and oil, which word doesn’t belong?

I thought this was gonna be a trick question. I was tempted to answer "octopus" because it has two "o's" and the others only have one.

**Bumper** · 08-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerak936

I thought this was gonna be a trick question. I was tempted to answer "octopus" because it has two "o's" and the others only have one.

Truth can exist on many levels, grasshopper.

08-07-2004	#18 (permalink)
Bumper Class Clown Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Winnipeg, Canada Posts: 9,757	Actually, you all did pretty well. The answers follow: Tough Test 6 - Answers 1. As the monkey climbs the rope, the weight will rise the same distance. 2. Seven (British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick) 3. Most people tend to say (or at least think) at first that the bottle costs $1 and the cork costs 10¢. But in that case the bottle would only cost 90¢ more than the cork. The right answer is that the bottle costs $1.05 and the cork 5¢, making exactly a $1 difference between the bottle and the cork. 4. Oil. The other two don’t rhyme with any other word in the English language. 5. 8 teams played. If 8 teams took part in the tournament, then the first team played games against the other 7 teams. The second team has already played against the first team, and so only plays games against the other 6 teams. In this manner, the second last team plays against only one additional team, and the last team will have played against all the others. Thus, the total number of games is 7 + 6 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 28 games. 6. Ethiopia 7. Four years ago. 8. Her broomstick. 9. Assuming two wheels for each cycle, 13 cycles would have 26 wheels. But, there are 35 - 26 = 9 extra wheels. As bicycles have 2 wheels, and tricycles have 3 wheels, there is 1 extra wheel per tricycle in the park. Thus, the extra 9 wheels belong to 9 tricycles. 10. A towel.

08-08-2004	#21 (permalink)
Critter añejo Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cerca de Washington DC Posts: 3,343	My head hurts reading about the monkey, the pulley and the weight. so what you are saying as the monkey climbs the rope falls down from him pulling the weight up? My thought is the weight of the money is removed from the equasion as he climbs and the weight falls until the rope is taunt again.

08-08-2004	#22 (permalink)
TAPPY añejo Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Louisiana Posts: 15,145	huh ?????????

08-09-2004	#26 (permalink)
Critter añejo Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cerca de Washington DC Posts: 3,343	Right Bump in other words "it ain't gonna happen that way", cause there is no such thing as a weighless rope, you might get a near frictionless pulley, but as the monkey climbs that weight is going to fall. Period End of Story.

08-09-2004	#28 (permalink)
sctx political anarchist Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Body in San Marcos Tx....Tankah in my mind Posts: 27,858	The answer is "B" for all of the questions :p

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