To Bargain or not to Bargain... - Page 3

Michele · 09-08-2004

OK, meet you there!

**sctx** · 09-08-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunKneeMarie

Bring it on, Michele... I'll be waiting in the OT section with my bowl of popcorn!

And take Sue with you !!! (I have a feeling she knows a story about 4 hour erections... just a feeling... no specific evidence)

**ryberg** · 09-09-2004

Well I'd have to agree with Nerak936 on the "what the market bears" point and rates and all that, and obviously we also change rates here depending on the season, just as Ginger pointed out about hotels in general. I would still disagree on the "why can't we blame the woman" point, as it seems like too much of a copout to me for the woman to bear no responsibility for her actions, but I suspect that continuing in their extreme forms, the two positions would essentially just become socialism and capitalism, so not much point in that! A sort of kinder, gentler capitalism would be nice, though, I think.

Steve

GerardoSolexico · 09-09-2004

Interesting to see where the conversations have led. I am all for a free market (supply and demand) but there is an issue that has not been really discussed that much and it is the difference in realities between what you pay at home and what you are paying here. Again, the lady was saving over 70% already. I have been in simmilar situations when I have travelled to other, less fortunate countries (Cuba and Guatemala). The same free market rules apply, but it is important to keep in mind the value of what you are barganing for to you vs. the other person. $50 pesos may not be much to me, but a lot to them. (this is different than the prices on 5th, which are definitively inflated and you have to bargain to even get a semi decent deal).

Nerak936 · 09-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryberg

I would still disagree on the "why can't we blame the woman" point, as it seems like too much of a copout to me for the woman to bear no responsibility for her actions, but I suspect that continuing in their extreme forms, the two positions would essentially just become socialism and capitalism, so not much point in that! A sort of kinder, gentler capitalism would be nice, though, I think.

Steve

Woman/Buyer: "Can I get a 10% discount on this?"

Man/Seller: "No."

The above conversation could've happened. Maybe should've happened.

If she hadn't received the 10% discount, would she still be "to blame"? Doesn't the seller bear some responsibility for the $1.50 per box that he "gave" her, rather than keeping it for himself (or the owner of the store or whoever, for that matter).

Am I a "greedy" person because I don't fill my car at the small, corner gas station (owned by a guy with small children) where they charge the highest prices but rather I fill it up somewhere else and save a few bucks? I don't think so.

**sctx** · 09-09-2004

I still don't see where there's anything wrong with trying to save money on the consumer side, just as there is absolutely nothing wrong with making money on the supplier side. I doubt this lady flew to Mexico just to save money on drugs. I would also avoid making the assumption that every tourist is a "rich" American/European and can afford to pay as much as possible for any good.
Yesterday , I was at a local store and purchased $44 worth of goods, the girl at the register said "If your purchase is $50 or more, you get a 15% discount... but I'll go ahead and give you the discount anyway"... do i feel guilty that I saved $6... hell no, it was the establishments decision to grant the discount... just like the pharmacist did. And as mentioned in another post... bartering has been an economic system as long as man has been on the face of the earth.
Capitalism may not be the prettiest... but do your research and you'll find it is far better than state sposored socialism/communism... any day of the week!!!

JoanieBlon · 09-09-2004

"There's no use cryin over spilt Tequila"

ESPECIALLY if it wasn't YOURS! LOL :p

Nerak936 · 09-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by sctx

I still don't see where there's anything wrong with trying to save money on the consumer side, just as there is absolutely nothing wrong with making money on the supplier side. I doubt this lady flew to Mexico just to save money on drugs. I would also avoid making the assumption that every tourist is a "rich" American/European and can afford to pay as much as possible for any good.
Yesterday , I was at a local store and purchased $44 worth of goods, the girl at the register said "If your purchase is $50 or more, you get a 15% discount... but I'll go ahead and give you the discount anyway"... do i feel guilty that I saved $6... hell no, it was the establishments decision to grant the discount... just like the pharmacist did. And as mentioned in another post... bartering has been an economic system as long as man has been on the face of the earth.
Capitalism may not be the prettiest... but do your research and you'll find it is far better than state sposored socialism/communism... any day of the week!!!

Very eloquently stated, Scott!! Bravo!

GerardoSolexico · 09-09-2004

This is the first time I recall myself as seen defending a Socialist/Communist opinion

. I own a couple of businesses and I try to get the best deal I can when buying something as much as anyone out there. But I do believe that the monetary reality between people/countries varies greatly and is something that should/could be considered. Just my opinion though...

**sctx** · 09-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by GerardoSolexico

This is the first time I recall myself as seen defending a Socialist/Communist opinion

. I own a couple of businesses and I try to get the best deal I can when buying something as much as anyone out there. But I do believe that the monetary reality between people/countries varies greatly and is something that should/could be considered. Just my opinion though...

Gerardo, I don't see you as a Socialist or a Communist, just making a point that strictly regulated economies/societies historically cannot hold a candle to capitalism.
But it does almost sound as if you are suggesting 50 different price tags on each item based on the economic strength of the tourists home country... and that would be even more upsetting to everyone than the bargaining system already in place!

Ginger · 09-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by sctx

I would also avoid making the assumption that every tourist is a "rich" American/European and can afford to pay as much as possible for any good.

(i wish there was a standing ovation emoti-con)

I'm almost ALWAYS on a budget, and that's all I'm going to say about THAT.

**ryberg** · 09-09-2004

Beat a dead horse time? Why not! A little more won't hurt!

I don't really follow your point about the question/answer exchange, Nerak936. Regardless of what the answer is, the asking of a question about possible future action and the behavior that represents can certainly be unethical. Just look at the entire area of sexual harrassment that has risen so dramatically in the public eye over the past couple of decades for proof of that. The asking of a question or initation or implication of an action isn't morally justified just because the person asked happens to accept the proposition involved. That would be determining ethics based essentially on popular opinion instead of any inherent moral substance. So I guess I would personally agree with Gerardo and the view he just expressed, and the logical conclusion of that is that you can in essence blame the woman on an ethical level -- i.e., hold her responsible -- for her action and the attitudes behind it. There must be some middle ground of empathy that's reachable even in a capitalistic system, no? My impression is that that is what Gerardo is suggesting.

Anyway, thanks for the interesting thread, Gerardo!

Steve

**sctx** · 09-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryberg

Beat a dead horse time? Why not! A little more won't hurt!

Steve

Uhhh Steve... how much for a blue vase ???

KevKaos · 09-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by sctx

Gerardo, I don't see you as a Socialist or a Communist, just making a point that strictly regulated economies/societies historically cannot hold a candle to capitalism.
But it does almost sound as if you are suggesting 50 different price tags on each item based on the economic strength of the tourists home country... and that would be even more upsetting to everyone than the bargaining system already in place!

I tend to agree with this statement. The interesting thing is that I would bet that I am in the lower middle range of the economic scale of members on this board. I can only afford one trip a year and then only for a week whereas there are many others on this site that can afford to make multiple trips a year and for a longer period. If a local seller determines that Americans can afford "this" price, and I can't afford it, I am going to ask for a discount or pass on the purchase. I even know of a person who went all the way to Mexico for a gastric bypass operation because they couldn't afford to have it done in the US. It was actually cheaper to go to Mexico, have the operation there and stay in country for ( I believe) a month recovery than to have it done here. I think it is all a matter of perspective. My point though is that if a local was buy the same medicine for the same price and asked for the same discount and got it, would you still have the same opinion? Just something to make you go "HMMMMMMMMM".

Nerak936 · 09-09-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by GerardoSolexico

.... But I do believe that the monetary reality between people/countries varies greatly and is something that should/could be considered. Just my opinion though...

But why should my personal economic situation (be it good or bad) be a consideration when I make a purchase in Mexico? Or any other country whose economy might be less affluent than where I live? I'm not visiting Mexico to help the people. I'm visiting to have a fun vacation - a vacation I've saved for with money I've earned by working hard. While there, I might see fit to give a large tip to the maid at the hotel or to the kid who bags my groceries or to the guys with guitars who sang a song while we had drinks, but I'm not doing it because I feel I should do it. I'm doing it because I want to do it. I give to charities here at home too. Why? Not because I should, but because that's what I want to do.

I definitely realize (who couldn't) that the people in that area need and appreciate the money. But I don't give it out of a sense of obligation.

Just my opinion.

09-08-2004	#31 (permalink)
Michele añejo Merchant Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Playa del Carmen, QR, MX Posts: 3,549	OK, meet you there!

09-09-2004	#33 (permalink)
ryberg playa maya guy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: real America Posts: 16,521	Well I'd have to agree with Nerak936 on the "what the market bears" point and rates and all that, and obviously we also change rates here depending on the season, just as Ginger pointed out about hotels in general. I would still disagree on the "why can't we blame the woman" point, as it seems like too much of a copout to me for the woman to bear no responsibility for her actions, but I suspect that continuing in their extreme forms, the two positions would essentially just become socialism and capitalism, so not much point in that! A sort of kinder, gentler capitalism would be nice, though, I think. Steve

09-09-2004	#34 (permalink)
GerardoSolexico way into it Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 120	Interesting to see where the conversations have led. I am all for a free market (supply and demand) but there is an issue that has not been really discussed that much and it is the difference in realities between what you pay at home and what you are paying here. Again, the lady was saving over 70% already. I have been in simmilar situations when I have travelled to other, less fortunate countries (Cuba and Guatemala). The same free market rules apply, but it is important to keep in mind the value of what you are barganing for to you vs. the other person. $50 pesos may not be much to me, but a lot to them. (this is different than the prices on 5th, which are definitively inflated and you have to bargain to even get a semi decent deal).

09-09-2004	#36 (permalink)
sctx my own peon Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Body in San Marcos Tx....Tankah in my mind Posts: 34,753	I still don't see where there's anything wrong with trying to save money on the consumer side, just as there is absolutely nothing wrong with making money on the supplier side. I doubt this lady flew to Mexico just to save money on drugs. I would also avoid making the assumption that every tourist is a "rich" American/European and can afford to pay as much as possible for any good. Yesterday , I was at a local store and purchased $44 worth of goods, the girl at the register said "If your purchase is $50 or more, you get a 15% discount... but I'll go ahead and give you the discount anyway"... do i feel guilty that I saved $6... hell no, it was the establishments decision to grant the discount... just like the pharmacist did. And as mentioned in another post... bartering has been an economic system as long as man has been on the face of the earth. Capitalism may not be the prettiest... but do your research and you'll find it is far better than state sposored socialism/communism... any day of the week!!!

09-09-2004	#37 (permalink)
JoanieBlon añejo Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tampa FL Posts: 2,394	"There's no use cryin over spilt Tequila" ESPECIALLY if it wasn't YOURS! LOL :p <!-- / sig -->

09-09-2004	#39 (permalink)
GerardoSolexico way into it Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 120	This is the first time I recall myself as seen defending a Socialist/Communist opinion . I own a couple of businesses and I try to get the best deal I can when buying something as much as anyone out there. But I do believe that the monetary reality between people/countries varies greatly and is something that should/could be considered. Just my opinion though...

09-09-2004	#42 (permalink)
ryberg playa maya guy Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: real America Posts: 16,521	Beat a dead horse time? Why not! A little more won't hurt! I don't really follow your point about the question/answer exchange, Nerak936. Regardless of what the answer is, the asking of a question about possible future action and the behavior that represents can certainly be unethical. Just look at the entire area of sexual harrassment that has risen so dramatically in the public eye over the past couple of decades for proof of that. The asking of a question or initation or implication of an action isn't morally justified just because the person asked happens to accept the proposition involved. That would be determining ethics based essentially on popular opinion instead of any inherent moral substance. So I guess I would personally agree with Gerardo and the view he just expressed, and the logical conclusion of that is that you can in essence blame the woman on an ethical level -- i.e., hold her responsible -- for her action and the attitudes behind it. There must be some middle ground of empathy that's reachable even in a capitalistic system, no? My impression is that that is what Gerardo is suggesting. Anyway, thanks for the interesting thread, Gerardo! Steve

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