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-   -   Change in entry law?? (http://www.playa.info/playa-del-carmen-forum/71634-change-entry-law.html)

beam-eye 03-10-2014 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dijo (Post 2039449)
go on-line "google" and find out what in the US that is considered a misdemeanor is considered a felony in Canada. We are a totally different country with different laws. When you cross the bridge from MI to Ontario there are huge signs "no guns allowed in Canada", please stop and turn in all firearms to MI authorities. Do people do it? No. Do they get caught? Yes. What happens? Jail. Directly. Just ask a doctor that thought this did not apply to him. We fly out of Detroit, MI and their customs regulations are different than ours. We only bring back what is allowed in the US because that's where we are landing.

Some people just don't seem to get it. Immigration people can come across as very officious, but a lacky? I don't think so. You must be proficient in at least 2 languages to work immigration at the Canadian border and you must continually upgrade your education in order to progress. We cross the border at least once every two weeks and once they swipe our passports they know exactly where we've been and when.

I honestly have no idea what the solution to this is other than: just try it. The point I'm trying to make is; every country is different. At least he's tried to find out for himself what is acceptable in Mexico. I really hope there is no problem and that you all have a wonderful time.

A misdemeanor in one jurisdiction is, by definition, not a felony (or anything else) in another jurisdiction if it wasn't committed there, even though it might have been had it been committed there - but it wasn't. And since it wasn't, what it might have been, had it been, has no practical application and is thus an entirely moot point not subject to presumption, interpretation, re-interpretation, or mis-interpretation by a border guard, no matter how many languages he might speak.

No offense meant regarding a specific officer or incident. A 'lacky', as I use the term, is an officious, linear-thinking administrator of policy who, for whatever reasons, believes his mandate exceeds his actual authority. I have no doubt that Canadian border officers are well-trained, and I usually come to the defense of TSA officers when they make what appear to be goofy mistakes in following procedures that they are sworn to follow. It's the application of myopic over-zealous officiousness that sets me off. Suerte!

NorthernMN 03-10-2014 07:25 PM

Oh beam-eye, you lost me half way through that first paragraph and I was really trying! :rolleyes: Anyway.....eight guys head up to Canada for a nice weekend of fishing. Two are turned away at the border for DUI's. Different countries, different rules.

jiffer 03-10-2014 07:48 PM

I didn't mean to start a battle over immigration and lacky. :truce:
I was just curious if anyone else has heard of this problem and wondering why it seems more people are reporting being turned away. My brother is on the fence if he should cancel or not. He is very stressed over it and does not want to waste money traveling there and being turned away at Cancun airport.

Shammy 03-10-2014 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthernMN (Post 2039468)
Oh beam-eye, you lost me half way through that first paragraph and I was really trying! :rolleyes: Anyway.....eight guys head up to Canada for a nice weekend of fishing. Two are turned away at the border for DUI's. Different countries, different rules.

My son got a DUI and his friends were thinking of going to Canada this summer. We found out he can't go! I don't understand it at all, why a DUI means you can't go into Canada but it is what it is! :ohno:

jiffer 03-10-2014 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shammy (Post 2039474)
My son got a DUI and his friends were thinking of going to Canada this summer. We found out he can't go! I don't understand it at all, why a DUI means you can't go into Canada but it is what it is! :ohno:


I know Canada is very tough on who they let in. My brother had traveled there for scuba diving several times and on his 5th dive trip he was stopped at the border and turned away. So now Canada is off limits for him. The way it is looking Mexico might be office limits also. I read on another forum that the US is now notifying Mexico when convicted people are traveling to Mexico. How true this is I have no idea.

beam-eye 03-10-2014 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiffer (Post 2039484)
I know Canada is very tough on who they let in. My brother had traveled there for scuba diving several times and on his 5th dive trip he was stopped at the border and turned away. So now Canada is off limits for him. The way it is looking Mexico might be office limits also. I read on another forum that the US is now notifying Mexico when convicted people are traveling to Mexico. How true this is I have no idea.

Homeland Security requires all airlines flying passengers into the US to provide a passenger list for all flights entering the US, and to provide reciprocal lists to all countries whose airlines fly to and from the US.

It's relatively easy to match names with law enforcement lists, but given the time constraints of trying to interpret the 'crimes' of entering passengers before they arrive at the customs gates, it's probably much easier to just blindly bar entry rather than to research each one of hundreds of passengers with seemingly minor 'convictions' including DUI, or fishing without a license, or smoking marijuana as a teenager 20 years ago, or whatever the host country decides is sufficient cause for suspicion. A letter in the pocket from local law enforcement might help (probably can't hurt), but I frankly don't know how much, if any, discretion a border guard has in matters like this.

The recent Malaysia Air crash (2 days ago) has highlighted weak security measures that allowed at least 2 people onto the flight with stolen passports - so nobody knows who they were. Tougher measures all around is the current standard in the US, Canada and Europe - but who of us remembers ever having to take off your shoes to board in Cancun? 'Sloppy' here means more rigid on arrival. But 'DUI'? Probably right up there with 'listening to classical music'.

jiffer 03-10-2014 09:33 PM

I agree that the recent crash is not going to help things at all. I think he is leaning towards cancelling the trip. The person who said the US is notifying Mexico said he was this from someone at the Mexican Consulate.

jiffer 03-11-2014 08:52 AM

So I called the Mexico consulate in Washington DC and they said there is a new law in effect where the US is notifying Mexico when a convicted person is traveling to Mexico. I asked is Mexico refusing entry to all those people or just flagging certain ones. She said she doesn't know. hum... That doesn't sound right. But it could be. Some people reported there names were called when the plane landed and were escorted to a office and said the US told them they were coming. If that is the case you would think they would be turning away hundreds of people.

Murrsay185 03-11-2014 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shammy (Post 2039474)
My son got a DUI and his friends were thinking of going to Canada this summer. We found out he can't go! I don't understand it at all, why a DUI means you can't go into Canada but it is what it is! :ohno:

Canada and the US many years ago agreed to share criminal records. This allowed both sides of the border the ability to keep criminals out. At the time the intent was to prevent serious criminals from entering either country. DUI, minor drug possession or shoplifting was not considered serious enough to deny entry. The terrorist attack of 9/11 spawned many changes for Canadians entering the US. Homeland Security became the authority and any conviction for anything meant denial of entry to the US. Canada protested this blanket inclusion of all criminal record holders being denied entry. Homeland Security (US Government) refused to relax the entry rules so Canada in retaliation implemented the same rules for US citizens entering Canada. Tit for tat and it is what it is.
A Canadian with a minor criminal record (DUI) wishing to enter US must first obtain a US Entry Visa. Total cost near $1,000. And it is issued through Homeland Security. I expect to enter Canada with a minor criminal record (DUI) the cost would be about the same.
How stupid is this? I see open marijuana sales in Colorado and Canadian citizens being denied entry into the US because of a decades old fine for minor marijuana possession. It would be laughable if it wasn't so stupid. Until something changes within Homeland Security the status quo will continue.

Rissask 03-11-2014 09:39 AM

I think it is pretty extreme, too.

And it looks like it is not easy to get past it, either...:(

Laws for Entering Canada With a DUI | eHow


I know a Canadian who was flying to Phoenix to golf a couple years ago and they (US Immigration) ran his name and put him on an immediate plane home once he arrived in Arizona....because of a 20 year old pot charge in Alberta. :doh2: Stupid! And he had been traveling to the US twice yearly at least for the past decade!

rustyndusty 03-11-2014 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rissask (Post 2039584)
I think it is pretty extreme, too.

And it looks like it is not easy to get past it, either...:(

Laws for Entering Canada With a DUI | eHow


I know a Canadian who was flying to Phoenix to golf a couple years ago and they (US Immigration) ran his name and put him on an immediate plane home once he arrived in Arizona....because of a 20 year old pot charge in Alberta. :doh2: Stupid! And he had been traveling to the US twice yearly at least for the past decade!

I hate these situations where people end up suffering while governments play their stupid tit-for-tat games. Someone make a decision for God's sake, leaving it up to border guards and their personal whims is irresponsible on the governments part.
Dusty and I have been traveling for 20+ years and living together now for 26 years and coming thru the U.S. the last time, we had a U.S. immigration officer work us over for not being MARRIED!!??!! :disbelief: :read: give me a break!! What business is it of his?? I kept my mouth shut (for a change) and said "Yes sir and no sir" In the meantime he continued to try to %&*@ me off.
I can see this immigration thing getting way outta hand if left up to the guards and their personal agendas.

jiffer 03-11-2014 11:39 AM

I agree not having standard policy and it being consistentl enforced makes it difficult for people. If he knew definatlly he would get denie it would make life easier. It is a pricey gamble.

Rissask 03-11-2014 11:47 AM

It is a pricy gamble, not sure it's one I would take.

He could buy trip insurance but if it's the case they turn him away for this reason, I doubt the insurance company would cover it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by beam-eye (Post 2039461)
A misdemeanor in one jurisdiction is, by definition, not a felony (or anything else) in another jurisdiction if it wasn't committed there, even though it might have been had it been committed there - but it wasn't. And since it wasn't, what it might have been, had it been, has no practical application and is thus an entirely moot point not subject to presumption, interpretation, re-interpretation, or mis-interpretation by a border guard, no matter how many languages he might speak.

No offense meant regarding a specific officer or incident. A 'lacky', as I use the term, is an officious, linear-thinking administrator of policy who, for whatever reasons, believes his mandate exceeds his actual authority. I have no doubt that Canadian border officers are well-trained, and I usually come to the defense of TSA officers when they make what appear to be goofy mistakes in following procedures that they are sworn to follow. It's the application of myopic over-zealous officiousness that sets me off. Suerte!


well, yes and no, and not exactly...

Quote:


According to Canadian immigration law, a person is barred from coming into the country if they have been convicted of an offense that would have been treated as an indictable offense if it had been committed in Canada. Essentially, it doesn’t matter how U.S. law classifies the offenseit matters how the offense is classified in Canada.

Unlike California, where driving under the influence is either a misdemeanor or felony offense depending on the circumstances, driving under the influence in Canada is a felony that is punishable by up to five years in prison. A DUI conviction is considered an excludable offense under the Canadian Immigration Act, meaning the person can be excludable even if they were only convicted of a misdemeanor.

stevesul 03-11-2014 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shammy (Post 2039474)
My son got a DUI and his friends were thinking of going to Canada this summer. We found out he can't go! I don't understand it at all, why a DUI means you can't go into Canada but it is what it is! :ohno:

A friend who has traveled with us got a DUI several years ago. We were looking at packages to Zihuatanejo out of Toronto (3 hours away) but nixed that due to him possibly being turned away at the US/Canada border.

Hopefully there is some clarification on what Mexico is looking for when they deny entry.

jiffer 03-11-2014 12:04 PM

I am wondering what type of conviction these ppl had that were turned away? I wonderif rthat makes a difference.


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