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-   -   Change in entry law?? (http://www.playa.info/playa-del-carmen-forum/71634-change-entry-law.html)

Dijo 03-11-2014 01:00 PM

It doesn't seem like
 
anything is going change regarding the system presently in place; that allows the individual immigration officer to determine who is allowed to enter "their" country. Right now it is at the officer's discretion.

Every time we travel in the US which is bi-weekly; we see this. This applies when we enter Michigan and again when we return to Canada. We have over the past several years, had our vehicle searched by dogs for drugs before we were even allowed on the bridge to return to Canada, been sent in on the Canadian side to pay duty on 12 beers that we've always been allowed to bring back (her discretion on whether we should have the beer).

This is part of what we put up with because we do enjoying shopping in Michigan and playing golf over there. We are Michigan's guest! We are not allowed to take meat, fruit or dairy products across, but we can bring them back to Canada. It always makes us laugh because beside us on the bridge will be a truck load of cattle, one of pigs and several garbage trucks taking garbage to a landfill in Michigan from Toronto, On. Sometimes it doesn't make sense, but it's all part of the agreement between US and Canada.

We have the luxury of being able to fly out of Detroit, MI which is approx an hour's drive versus a three and half hour drive to Toronto and much more reasonable airfare. Do we want to stay on the right side of these officers? You're darn right. We try to always keep on top of whatever new laws are put in place regarding what is allowed. A simple search on-line will tell you what's new. Once you get a "flag" on your passport or vehicle you will get stopped every time.

I'm not sure how fair this system is but according to the local bridge news, there are lots of illegals, drugs, guns, etc. getting across going both ways. I was really surprised.

DONO 03-11-2014 01:14 PM

But..............
 
Does anyone know that this is actually happening in Mexico; especially in regards to CUN.

Coz

Nikky 03-11-2014 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiffer (Post 2039484)
I know Canada is very tough on who they let in. My brother had traveled there for scuba diving several times and on his 5th dive trip he was stopped at the border and turned away. So now Canada is off limits for him. The way it is looking Mexico might be office limits also. I read on another forum that the US is now notifying Mexico when convicted people are traveling to Mexico. How true this is I have no idea.

It is true (I have been an immigration officer in Canada, I work for the governement).

Nikky 03-11-2014 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shammy (Post 2039474)
My son got a DUI and his friends were thinking of going to Canada this summer. We found out he can't go! I don't understand it at all, why a DUI means you can't go into Canada but it is what it is! :ohno:

You can go if you applied for a rehabilitation

Application for Rehabilitation for Persons Who Are Inadmissible to Canada Because of Past Criminal Activity

You don't need to apply if it's been 10 years since the DUI.

I worked as an immigration officer at the border (I don't wish to disclose the location), so I know what I'm talking about!

The Immigration Act does not allow anyone with criminal record, who is not a Canadian citizen, to enter the country. Officers are just applying the law.

Quote:

Criminality
(2) A foreign national is inadmissible on grounds of criminality for

(a) having been convicted in Canada of an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by way of indictment, or of two offences under any Act of Parliament not arising out of a single occurrence;

(b) having been convicted outside Canada of an offence that, if committed in Canada, would constitute an indictable offence under an Act of Parliament, or of two offences not arising out of a single occurrence that, if committed in Canada, would constitute offences under an Act of Parliament;

(c) committing an act outside Canada that is an offence in the place where it was committed and that, if committed in Canada, would constitute an indictable offence under an Act of Parliament; or

(d) committing, on entering Canada, an offence under an Act of Parliament prescribed by regulations.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...5/page-16.html

Nikky 03-11-2014 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babaloo (Post 2039419)
How would Mexico immigration know about a US conviction?

They share NCIC data.

jiffer 03-11-2014 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikky (Post 2039663)
They share NCIC data.

Is this something new that mexico has access to? If not i am curious as why all of sudden for the past several months mexuco has turned away travelers that have vacationed there many ttimes previously. I am also wondering if they are allowing anyone with a past criminal record in.

Nikky 03-11-2014 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiffer (Post 2039664)
Is this something new that mexico has access to? If not i am curious as why all of sudden for the past several months mexuco has turned away travelers that have vacationed there many ttimes previously. I am also wondering if they are allowing anyone with a past criminal record in.

It's not that new. Mexico have modernized their border management a few years ago. But there have been some changes in their Immigration Act and now immigration officers are well-trained and apply the law. I've been watching them when I went recently and being a former immigration officer myself, I found that they do a very good job. They work almost the same way that we do in Canada.

US-Canada-Mexico border's management are not that different now.

Nikky 03-11-2014 02:24 PM

One thing I want to add. When you cross the border, the officer check traveller's passeports/visas. But they don't necessary check your criminal record. It's not automatic. Using the NCIC/CPIC database is not that easy and it's not a thing you do for every single traveller, for time management reason.

St. Pauli Girl 03-11-2014 02:31 PM

The OP is from the US. I would like to hear from anyone on this forum who is from the US, has a valid passport, and has recently (or ever, really) been turned back/denied entry upon arrival at CUN due to a criminal record. And if so, was the record a misdemeanor or felony? Thanks!

beam-eye 03-11-2014 02:43 PM

Very interesting, Nikky. Thanks for your knowledgeable post:

Quote:

Criminality
(2) A foreign national is inadmissible on grounds of criminality for

(a) having been convicted in Canada of an offence under an Act of Parliament punishable by way of indictment, or of two offences under any Act of Parliament not arising out of a single occurrence;

(b) having been convicted outside Canada of an offence that, if committed in Canada, would constitute an indictable offence under an Act of Parliament, or of two offences not arising out of a single occurrence that, if committed in Canada, would constitute offences under an Act of Parliament;

(c) committing an act outside Canada that is an offence in the place where it was committed and that, if committed in Canada, would constitute an indictable offence under an Act of Parliament; or

(d) committing, on entering Canada, an offence under an Act of Parliament prescribed by regulations.
For clarification of the wording of these Canadian regulations, which refer to an 'indictment' or an 'indictable offence', bringing an 'indictment' in the US requires a 'Grand Jury' decision to bring charges (as opposed to a prosecutor's office simply bringing charges on its own initiative). Does Canada have a 'grand jury' system that determines whether or not to indict (lay charges), meaning that the above regulations would apply only to that type of prosecution (i.e., by grand jury indictment, if there is a grand jury system), or is the term 'indictment' simply the catch-all terminology used in Canada for bringing (laying) any and all criminal charge by any means, whether by grand jury or by the district or state's attorney, meaning that all charges are initiated by 'indictment'?

DUIs for example, and possession of marijuana for personal consumption, and a host of other relatively 'minor' offenses are generally not considered to be 'indictable' offenses requiring the time or expense of grand jury deliberation, but are simply prosecuted by the District Attorney, or state Attorney General's office, and are thus not 'indictments' under the law. Just wondering if Canada uses a grand jury 'indictment' system, and if so, how the wording is interpreted in enforcing the regulations - e.g., someone prosecuted by a method other than by an indictment (i.e., prosecuted by the district or state's attorney, but not by grand jury indictment) would, based on the specific wording of the act, seemingly have grounds to contest denial of entry at the border on grounds that he had not been 'indicted' or that the crime was not an 'indictable offense'.

Dijo 03-11-2014 04:31 PM

Thanks Nikky....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikky (Post 2039666)
It's not that new. Mexico have modernized their border management a few years ago. But there have been some changes in their Immigration Act and now immigration officers are well-trained and apply the law. I've been watching them when I went recently and being a former immigration officer myself, I found that they do a very good job. They work almost the same way that we do in Canada.

US-Canada-Mexico border's management are not that different now.


appreciate your information. It's not an easy job dealing with the public, regardless of what you are doing.

sonofdob 03-11-2014 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beam-eye (Post 2039674)
Very interesting, Nikky. Thanks for your knowledgeable post:



For clarification of the wording of these Canadian regulations, which refer to an 'indictment' or an 'indictable offence', bringing an 'indictment' in the US requires a 'Grand Jury' decision to bring charges (as opposed to a prosecutor's office simply bringing charges on its own initiative). Does Canada have a 'grand jury' system that determines whether or not to indict (lay charges), meaning that the above regulations would apply only to that type of prosecution (i.e., by grand jury indictment, if there is a grand jury system), or is the term 'indictment' simply the catch-all terminology used in Canada for bringing (laying) any and all criminal charge by any means, whether by grand jury or by the district or state's attorney, meaning that all charges are initiated by 'indictment'?

DUIs for example, and possession of marijuana for personal consumption, and a host of other relatively 'minor' offenses are generally not considered to be 'indictable' offenses requiring the time or expense of grand jury deliberation, but are simply prosecuted by the District Attorney, or state Attorney General's office, and are thus not 'indictments' under the law. Just wondering if Canada uses a grand jury 'indictment' system, and if so, how the wording is interpreted in enforcing the regulations - e.g., someone prosecuted by a method other than by an indictment (i.e., prosecuted by the district or state's attorney, but not by grand jury indictment) would, based on the specific wording of the act, seemingly have grounds to contest denial of entry at the border on grounds that he had not been 'indicted' or that the crime was not an 'indictable offense'.

beam-eye...an indictable offence in Canada is an offence which can only be tried after a preliminary hearing has been held to determine whether there is a prima facie case to answer. In the USA, a crime of similar severity is called a felony while in Canada it is called a criminal offence...sonofdob

beam-eye 03-11-2014 05:22 PM

In Canada, there does appear to be a significant difference between an 'Indictable Offense' (typically felonies), as noted in the Entry Regulations posted by Nikky, and a 'Summary Offense' for less serious crimes (typically misdemeanors), as noted here for Indictable Offenses:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indictable_offence

and here for Summary Offenses:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_offence

These categories seem to have replaced the older Grand Jury system of issuing indictments in Canada, as noted here:

Grand jury - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but appear to retain the similar distinctions between separate procedures for indictable offenses (felonies) and summary offenses (misdemeanors) as found the judicial system in the US, and the similar procedures and safeguards that go with it.

Based on the specific wording of the Entry regulations submitted by Nikky, I take this to indicate the real possibility that convictions for misdemeanors in the US would (and possibly should) also be considered summary offenses (i.e., misdemeanors) in Canada as well, and that the specific language 'Indictable Offenses' codifies and maintains that difference. I'm not a Canadian 'attorney' (nor a US attorney either), but the difference between the enforcement policy at the border compared to the specific wording of the Entry Regulations seems like sufficient reason to contact a Canadian attorney to clarify the law versus what appears to be a rather broader application of it by border control officers than is called for by the law itself. Good luck!

chula banana 03-11-2014 06:06 PM

Canada does not have a grand jury system.

Most offences are "hybrid" offences which means that the prosecutor elects whether to proceed by indictment or by summary conviction. It does not really have anything to do with a preliminary inquiry, that is a red herring.

The election is not reflected on a person's criminal record, so an immigration officer has no real way of knowing whether or not the offence was summary or not.

But the Canadian law quoted refers to crimes that are "punishable" by way of indictment. That means most crimes, whether they were misdemeanours or not.

jiffer 03-11-2014 07:32 PM

Do you guys think the airline will charge extra to someone that is turned away at Cancun airport and is sent home on the next flight? I wonder how that is handled?


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